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Post by Toz76 on Jul 28, 2021 3:08:37 GMT -5
3WSR is six years old(!??! ??) and a lot has happened in that time. Some of it really good, some of it less so. In this thread, I'm gonna go through various aspects of the story that have appeared over the years, how they have changed over time, and what I'd do differently if I started from scratch but wanted to preserve as much as possible. Part one of this little essay series will focus on the Vile Evil Confederacy. When the Vile Evil Confederacy was introduced, I didn't have any real plans for it. They were a group of evil wizards to give the Bronze Mage someone to talk to other than Percy Silver, and to serve as a new antagonist now that the Evil Colorfolk were gone. They honestly could very easily have stayed shut up in that crypt forever, and for a while that was the plan, but I got attached to some of the random names I'd introduced and was compelled to bring them back. Speaking of the random names... the first introduction to the Vile Evil Confederacy was a post wherein the Bronze Mage listed several members of the faction. I am allergic to retconning things whenever possible, but looking back... some of these are bad. Let's go through the list, shall we? PART ONE: The characters: Paincauser: I actually kind of like the concept of the character that I ultimately ended up creating, but they're ultimately not interesting enough to be a main character. A side character with occasional day in the light moments, though, they're perfect for that. Darkhart: I paired him with Darkstorm, who's later on the list, but there's really not that much too him. He's very intentionally the "quiet and creepy evil" type, like Darkstorm. Cool, but not main-character status. Priori: One of the "main characters" of VEC. Priori's whole thing is that she's a necromancer, and she prefers the company of the undead to people. One of my many abandoned projects was a story about the romance between the Bronze Mage and her, but really I don't think Priori is interested in or capable of a physical relationship with someone who's not undead. Also, how thick her accent is varies. Sickoia: She's the VEC medic. I dunno why she exists but they do definitely need a medic. Vigaga: This was literally just a Story Game reference. Not a good one, either- this version of Vigaga is way too willing to be a quiet subordinate compared to Vlad from the Story game. He can go. Chaos: Tug took this character, who I literally forgot existed, and did something amazing with him. That said, his name doesn't match his powers. Slops/Grub: A reference to something else I wrote ages ago. They can go. Blackmagei: Despite Eyes once referring to her as among his favorite characters, she hasn't actually done much. Her backstory implies that she's a gender-swapped clone of Bloodlust, but that's just stupid and lazy so we can retcon that. That name is really cool, though. Chessmaster: Chessmaster is a classic character. Everyone loves Chessmaster. His unique status as a non-magical character among these magic users makes him really stand out. Tim: Was a Monty Python reference. That said, the lore surrounding Tim, Mark, and their "family" is one of my favorite background elements of the story. I like Tim. Deathnote: A reference to an anime I haven't seen. I actually came up with a role for him: he can cause one person anywhere in the universe to instantly drop dead, but it takes a lot out of him so he can only do it once every four months. This was to allow the VEC to assassinate powerful targets without making Deathnote too overpowered. Interesting concept, needs a better name. Cutebunny: Haha, it's funny because it's not an evil name! Cutebunny, alongside Doomboy and Xex, play a key role in the Cubii lore of VEC, but I wish I hadn't committed to such a dumb name. Doomboy: See Cutebunny. Killerman: She's a really talented swordswoman. That's it. Not worth cutting, but definitely not that interesting. Mindreader: His powers are made kind of redundant by Hivemind, but I think that makes for an interesting character conflict. I have a soft spot for him. Inferno: One of the first VEC members to speak, Inferno rapidly fell out of favor with me. "He's a fire mage with a hot temper" is kind of cliche, and he's meant to be a relatively low-ranking member and not able to participate in decision making. Lightbender: I love Lightbender. Although we sadly never got to that point, there was a story arc planned for partway through thread 3 that was heavily focused on him, and he remains a factor in the new canon. Lightbender's whole thing is that he's an evil light mage. Notably, though, he actually opposes the Bronze Mage, and he believes he ought to be the leader of the VEC. Darkstorm: See Darkhart Hivemind: Hivemind is an incredibly overpowered non-human entity capable of possessing many other humans. I like Hivemind a lot. His powerfulness is countered somewhat by the fact that magic-users (Especially colorfolk) can usually shake off his possession fairly easily, and the fact that he's loyal to the Cubii rather than the VEC (more on that later). Kendarboo Flickerbee: Kendarboo is a character who's been through a lot in the lore. He was introduced as a master model-maker, and that facet of him has remained to this day. He creates complex mechanical/magical devices. While he worships the Horned One, he is aligned more with Lightbender, and after Lightbender's death, I'd intended for him to become the leader of a more morally great reformist Horned One Cult. He's frequently shown as an ally of the Colorfolk, and genuinely does like them. He's definitely the least evil person on this list. But he does love the Horned One. Hohenheim/The Blood Alchemist/Edward Amestris: This character is Tug's baby, not mine, but I love him. After the death of Bloodlust (which happened in the distant past in the old canon, and will happen at some point in the new canon), Hohenheim becomes the new second in command of VEC. In the distant future, after the Bronze Mage allows himself to be ritually sacrificed to bring the Horned One into the world, and the Horned One is ultimately killed for real by the Colorfolk, my intention was for Hohenheim to lead the remnants of the VEC to pick up the pieces and decide where to go from there. The Giant/Little Monkey Man: Hoo boy. This was a call-back to a reference Frank made, to Spongebob I think? I had come up with a convoluted justification for their existence, wherein they were normal monkeys that were repeatedly killed and ressurected in higher-dimensional forms by the Horned One. That was dumb, I think the Horned One's power to raise the dead is interesting but needs to be changed, and these two should be cut. Bloodlust: Bloodlust was the original second-in-command of the VEC. In the old canon, he was killed by Kendarboo and Lightbender centuries ago. In the new canon, he's still alive. I honestly feel like he's kind of redundant, but having him still alive allows us to flesh out this mysterious character, and however he dies in this canon will definitely be compelling. That said, in future adaptations I'd definitely have him be dead already and Hohenheim be the second in command from the start. Icemeister: He's on Lightbender's team. He died in the old canon and probably will in the new canon too. I dunno he's not that interesting but I want him to exist. Xex: We'll talk about Xex more when I discuss the DEEP LORE, but Xex is a character that I used very heavily because Xex is the one pulling the strings behind the entire VEC. Xex and the other Cubii send creatures like the Great Horned One to planets around the multiverse as part of a plot by the Cubii high command. Vivian Bloodsphere: Due to her being rather personable, she's become one of the more noteworthy recurring VEC characters and I'm glad for that. Worldender: Worldender was a rich trillionaire whose actions accidentally led to the extinction of humanity. He went back in time to avoid dying and now works with VEC. I dunno, it's kind of a dumb character concept. I don't want to get rid of him but his role needs to make more sense. His time travel story mainly worked so I could explain inconsistencies in the VEC lore (we'll get to that). Honeybadger: Honeybadger is a selfish, arrogant opportunist. In nearly every canon that exists, he betrays the VEC as soon as a better opportunity comes along. He's just pathetic enough that he manages to beg and plead his way out of being murdered and just powerful enough that he's able to stay alive and continue gaining power. The Great Horned Beast: The real leader of the VEC, except he's essentially a mindless creature that is being controlled by the Cubii for their own ends. Worshipped as a god by the faction and an essential part of what makes the VEC stand out. Percy Silver: Percy Silver is one of my favorite characters. He's the son of Man In Gold who was kidnapped due to the belief that his birth fulfills a prophecy and he is destined to become the most powerful evil mage of all time, Silvestron. This is a very traumatic experience, but Percy Silver is incredibly naive, stupid, and lucky, so nothing ever gets him down. In the old canon, his Silvestron side was beginning to come out in the Deszeld City arc, but the Percy Silver side of him is still very much in control. For now, anyway... The Bronze Mage: The man, the myth, the legend. A stereotypical wizard in bronze robes with a long beard, and a charismatic cult leader with varied powers. He's very much evolved from "evil for evil's sake" to "actually pretty nice cult leader", but I think he's still one of the more interesting characters we've had. I've had his death (which will be in very similar circumstances in every canon) planned for literal years. PART TWO: THE LORE IS A MESS So, the Great Horned One was defeated in 1135. The Vile Evil Confederacy worships the Horned One. For that reason... I kinda made it so that the VEC existed since 1131. This raises a few problems, such as "why are there non-European members in England in 1135?", "why are their names referencing chess, the anime Death Note, and other things that won't exist for centuries?", and "How did they stay alive for so many years?". Worldender's time travel solved the second one, and the Horned One granting long life to his worshippers solved the third one, but honestly these are messy solutions. In the new canon, there's a lot more ambiguity around the past and origins of the VEC. I still think the Bronze Mage has been around for hundreds of years, but the VEC as it exists today most likely only came into being in the last 20 or so years, likely due to Bloodlust's work recruiting. This means the Bronze Mage and Hohenheim, who were both the first members of their colorfolk bloodline in the old canon, will likely have to have their backstories changed. But you know what's really messy? The DEEP LORE. I've mentioned a few times that the Cubii are manipulating the VEC for their own ends, but you have no clue how deep it goes. For example, in addition to creating the GHB, the VEC also released the Red Crystal, the Yellow Crystal, and the Blue Crystal. The Blue Crystal became Hivemind, the Red Crystal became the Philosopher's Stone/Philos, and the Yellow Crystal became the Unicorn Tapestry. Where is this mentioned in the game? Nowhere directly, but it's been alluded to a few times because I've had that in mind for literal years. Also, what's Tim's deal? According to the Wiki, he's Mark's cousin, and in his fight with BT, he references an "Old Geezer" that is more powerful that Bright Turqoise/Mister Marvelous. Who could that be? Tug knows more than I do on that front. Maybe Abaddon, the embodiment of the space between universes that the GOD worked for in the old canon and the Cubii are rebelling against? Perhaps Aleph, a version of Bright Turqoise from an alternate dimension where he turned evil and built four robot bodies for himself and his three freudian alter egos (yes, this has been referenced before). Maybe one of the authors? Oh also, what about the Sordon, a mysterious artifact wielded by Silvestron that looks like a sword made of blue energy and can steal the powers of anyone hit by it? Or the fact that Silvestron is an evil reincarnation of Heph from the story game, who is himself the reincarnation of the author of the first ever 3WSR post on the old TTTE wiki forum? Or the foreshadowing of the fact that Darkstorm and Darkhart will one day merge into one being called Stormhart? Or that Thomas Gold and the Bronze Mage both actually meet the requirements for being Silvestron? Or the 800 years that the VEC spent scattered in alternate realities... See what I mean? The lore is a bit messy. A teensy bit. PART III: What would I do to change it? First things first, we want to cut out the joke characters. Bye monkey men, bye slops and grub. Tim, Worldender, and Vigaga are on thin fucking ice. In 4WSR, a "High Council" was established to give a bit more of a central command. The high council includes the Bronze Mage, Bloodlust, Chessmaster, Hivemind, Priori, Vivian, Xex, Mindreader, Honeybadger, Hohenheim, and Percy Silver, as well as two other characters, Elvene and Orator, who were members of the original VEC that died hundreds of years ago in the old canon. I haven't touched on them at all, but the "bad recruits" are one of the most important parts of VEC history. Most of them will remain. In particular, Rodney The Intern, The General, The Cushion, The Duplicator, Eddie Denim, Doctor Quinn, Silent Night, Vengeance Bringer, Suleiman, Balor, and a few others have made a definite mark and will absolutely be sticking around. Some of the others, though, are extraneous. Batman and Spiderman, in particular, while memorable, are also legally dodgy. The memorability of these characters comes from their introductions, and in the new canon, most of the pre-Impel Down VEC members have already joined. The thematic angle of the VEC also needs some polish. The VEC are surprisingly friendly, but they are in fact a death cult. I think the VEC work best as sympathetic villains, because while not actively working to summon the Horned One, they're pretty chill people. But how much does the religious angle play up? I've frequently considered changing their name to the Church/Cult of the Horned One (COTHO), but the VEC is such an iconic name. Is one a subgroup of the other? Is the VEC what Hohenheim creates once the Horned One dies? I don't know what works best. But I don't think that much needs to change about the VEC. The other factions, however... See you next time!
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Post by Toz76 on Aug 31, 2021 15:22:31 GMT -5
Article Two: The Colorfolk
Ah yes... the big one.
The colorfolk are the oldest original characters of 3WSR. I like them a lot. You like them a lot.
They kinda suck though.
Hold on, put down the pitchforks, hear me out. Despite multiple retcons and at least one entire continuity reboot, the colorfolk have a few fundamental problems preventing them from living up to their potential as characters. In this essay I want to outline my problems with the colorfolk, from the nitpicky to the serious, and how we can fix them. This is going to be WAY more contentious than the VEC one. Maybe it's creator bias blinding me to the flaws of VEC, but the VEC essay was mostly jokes about the convoluted lore and how pointless the character Slops is. The core of VEC is fine. This one dives deep into my thoughts about the fundamental nature of the most important 3WSR faction. My "ideal" version of the faction I'm going to propose at the end is going to look quite different from what we have now. Remember, this thread is about what I would change. YOU can ignore as much of this as you want, these are just my thoughts.
ACT 1: Maybe retcons good?
A lot of the Colorfolk lore that we know today was established in the early days of the TTTE Wikia forum and Thread 1, when 3WSR was a lot more goofy and continuity was second to a good story or a good gag. I'm NOT advocating we return to that format, by any means, but it does have its advantages. And when you transition a story from goofy to grounded, sometimes you have to change things to make it work.
We didn't change enough things.
Here's a nonexhaustive list of pre-lore and early-lore nonsense, some of which was excised in the reboot and some of which should have been but wasn't.
*The Prism is an ancient artifact that gives the colorfolk their power. It has a personality in the form of a "spirit" (also known as Bachmann Edward in the old canon for reasons that are just way too fucking complicated to get into), and it monitors the morality of the Colorfolk. The Spirit's nature is unclear, but in the old canon it was said to be the result of an ancient guardian spirit fusing with the alien technology in the Prism when it was sent to earth (yes, that was a thing that happened and was played completely seriously). How come an alien/magical being with no connection to morality is able to not only make moral judgements that are seemingly always judged as correct? The Spirit of the Prism only exists to explain a one-off gag involving the character of Bachmann Edward being powered by a "spare" piece of the Prism, and that gag only exists to make fun of a previous joke about model trains requiring batteries to function (the joke is they don't but the writers briefly thought they did). Since Bachmann Edward's sole appearance in the new canon makes it clear he's very very different from the old canon, the Spirit of the Prism doesn't need to exist, at least not as a literal being that can talk to the colorfolk. (I have major issues with how the new canon portrays the spirit that I haven't mentioned, but that's an ongoing discussion that I won't get into here.) If the colorfolk really need a spirit guide, they can just talk to...
*The Colorfolk Ancestors are spirits of the colorfolk that came before, that appear to guide, advise, and chastise their successors. They were a very prominent element of the canon, especially during Thread One, but faded into obscurity after that. The last story to really address them was a 3WSR horror story about ethics I wrote, "Cheating Death", which despite being written during the tail end of the Edgy Grimdark Toz era, was actually the realization of a concept that I had planned for at least two years beforehand, and I actually think it holds up better than most of my other writings from the time. I'm not gonna spoil it here, but I really like what that story does with the Prism's ideas of morality. Anyway. Part of the reason I wrote that story, in addition to paying off a years-old setup, was because of the Fifth Law of Magic, which states that the dead can not come back to life, contradicting the whole "ancestors can appear to the colorfolk" thing. The 8 Laws might need some revision (that's for another time), but I genuinely do like what they bring to the lore. But without some convoluted justification like the one Cheating Death provides, the Fifth Law and the Ancestors cannot coexist.
*Okay, this one's been retconned out, but... FRENCH COLORWOMEN?? This was a gag early in the story about how the colorwomen have French cousins with the same powers. This one-off gag led to the reveal that there are colorfolk organizations around the world, each with their own Prism, and our heroes just happened to have the biggest and most powerful. I had PLANS for this concept, but lets face it, it's an unnecessary complication to an already complex narrative. I do still like the idea that the Prism is one of many Prisms (built by aliens, remember? See two paragraphs ago), and I hope some form of that returns in 4WSR, but the multiple colorfolk organizations was a silly concept that should have been ignored rather than expanded on. My bad.
*There are SO. MANY. COLORS. In 2016, when we were beginning our efforts to make things consistent, I went to the Wikipedia page for "List of Colors" and made a page on our Wiki for Every. Single. One. IN MY DEFENSE, some of these colors (most notably Man In Capri, Man In Bole, and ESPECIALLY Man In Bright Turquoise[can you tell the list was alphabetical?]) became the basis of memorable characters that I'm glad exist. But frankly, we don't need that many characters! A lot of those colors are college sports team colors that are probably copyrighted anyway (I hate that colors can be copywritten, capitalism kills creativity, etc etc) so we can't use them. I still really like the idea of a gag involving a colorman with an incredibly specific color, but there's gotta be a better way than making HUNDREDS of one note characters (yes, HUNDREDS).
*I feel I should address the Anchor Curse. The Anchor Curse was created when the Evil colorfolk were turned good. I was worried about losing our at the time most interesting antagonists, so I introduced a twist- the Prism having been broken in the past meant that it was no longer able to contain all the evil that it used to be able to. To preserve the morality of the Colorfolk, it had to use one of them as an "Anchor" to store all the evil. Frank did not like this idea, and I get why. I feel like this was a philosophical difference between the two of us, we've admittedly clashed a lot about the Colorfolk's relationship to morality (sorry in advance btw, Franky, because I'm getting into that soon). The Anchor survives into the new canon too, with a similar purpose (a manifestation of the evil released when the Prism was shattered) but a very different execution. While the reintroduction of the Anchor as a concept, used as a compulsion to justify Man In Black's single-minded obsession with reassembling the Prism to turn it evil, was received way better than the original canon prism, but Tug and I revealing that Woman In Blue is under a similar compulsion to reassemble the Prism, albeit for "good", basically stopped the new canon in its tracks. I genuinely like the reveal, and I'll get into why in more detail with the next point, but I do get why it's controversial. The solution is to remove the Anchor Curse, but I created the Anchor curse for a reason, to balance out an aspect of Colorfolk lore that I don't like very much...
*The Morality Check is an idea that's existed for a long time, and basically says that while the Prism is intact, the Colorfolk are prevented from doing evil acts. Depending on the needs of the scene, this takes the form of either stripping them of their power if they do, or simply preventing them from doing the evil thing they are considering. Each time the Prism stops an evil act, a bit of the "Black Stuff" (the physical manifestation of evil in 3WSR, WE'LL GET TO THAT) collects in the Prism, and when the Prism shattered and the Morality Check failed, that collected black stuff flowed back into the colorfolk, explaining why the evil colorfolk are so cartoonishly evil. Now, it's no secret that I really don't like the Morality Check, and I've been trying to retcon/destroy in-universe/nerf it for years. I think it oversimplifies the morality in 3WSR way too much, making it into "the Colorfolk are the good guys because they literally can't be bad". In my ideal 3WSR, the Morality Check would not be a blanket prevention of evil. I think it should only prevent specific concrete acts, such as taking another life (with an exception for food animals, sorry vegans). This is my compromise from what I really want, which is to get rid of the Morality Check entirely and have the Colorfolk self-regulate. Either way, I think we should get rid of the Black Stuff too, and make the Evil Colorfolk's cartoonish evilness be a result of an outside force (Metalicana??) meddling, where the Prism being reassembled removes the influence of that outside force. On the website, on the page "Magic and Morality", it is written that the Black Stuff exists to justify there being a concept of objective morality in our story. I disagree with the need for such a concept. The morality of our characters should not be a calculus between "good actions equals good points" and "bad action equals black stuff" (Oh look, it's the themes explored in Cheating Death again!), it should be shown to the audience based on their actions and their internal sense of right and wrong. Having the characters compelled by the Prism to only ever make the right choice removes the ability to give our characters interesting moral choices that show their values.
*This last point isn't as philosophically important as the previous one, but I somehow get the sense this is gonna be the most controversial one of all. I don't think we should call them Colorfolk. Or Colormen, or Colorwomen. They need an entirely new name. Let me explain. Why are they called the colorfolk? Out of universe, the reason they're called colorfolk is kind of complicated. In the original story Frank and I wrote back in 2014 (I feel old), there were no women. There were only Colormen. The Man In Black, Man In Blue, etc. The Colorwomen were introduced by me in the Lost Arcs, as a third faction in the War Of The Shards. Their initial portrayal was intended to be a sympathetic version of those parodies of feminists that were all over the place online in 2015. Feminists wanting more inclusion were consistently portrayed as irrational, and my aim with the colorwomen was to be like "actually inclusion good?". Unfortunately, I was like 13 and a bad writer so it, uh, fucking sucked. The real result was that the colorwomen were portrayed as functionally identical to the colormen BUT GIRLS! Instead of being led by a Man In Black, there's a Woman In Pink! (If I recall correctly, part of this was me dunking on the complete lack of a Man In Pink in the original arc, but still). The four "good colorwomen" that team up with the "good colormen" are literally just the same four colors as the men. The female characters were often just the same as their male counterparts (the only real remnant of this now is Woman In Green also having Man In Green's height anxiety, but luckily she never caught on with any writer other than me). In future arcs, most notably the Bronze Mage arc, the colorwomen are treated as a completely separate entity (as I recall, the absence of the colorwomen in the Bronze Mage arc despite the colormen ALL being there was explained away with one line). When the series transitioned to the new forum, a greater effort was made to combine the two factions. There was a gag about how the Great Hall wouldn't let colorwomen in through the front door (dumb, presumably fixed offscreen), and then the Colorwomen Scroll was written to explain how the faction's history was interwoven with the colormen. I think part of the contention was that it was seen as "unrealistic" for women to be powerful heroes in the time period the colormen came from. My answer to that is- I literally don't care. Anyway, by the end of thread 1, the colorwomen and colormen were functionally one and the same, and I coined the gender-neutral "colorfolk" to refer to the joined faction. There were still some remnants of the initial divide though. The Colorwomen didn't have their own fancy artifacts like the men, they only had (and it makes me cringe every time I remember it, especially since it came up as recently as Deszeld) RINGS. The female characters all have magic rings instead of swords and helmets and shit. FUCK! That was bad. RINGS! Get it because women be marrying? (Side note- I did at one point try to introduce a faction of non-binary colorfolk, but I didn't want a repeat of the colorwomen, so... yeah. Legend has it they're still on that boat.) The thing is, fusing the colormen and colorwomen creates a bit of a mess. The Prism grants each color to a specific person. Or wait, two people... but they have to be one man and one woman, so rip intersex and nonbinary people... but wait, in the lore it's implied there were female colormen when certain colormen died without male heirs... so what are the rules??? I also hate the word colorfolk now (and to a lesser extent, colormen and colorwomen too). Every time I type it, part of me feels like a pastor in Georgia trying very hard to not use a racial slur. My solution? It's simple. Go back to the "one person per color" and make it open to any gender. Depending on the time period, it can be Man In Blue or Woman In Blue or Person In Blue... but only one at a time. As for the name: I personally like "The Order of the Prismatic Knights"- something with Prism in the name, basically. But I'm undecided.
Part Two: Who are you people?
The characters in the faction are incredibly ill-defined. It's not even clear who's in charge. It shifts between the "Council of 12" (all men) and the 8 "good colorfolk" from the War of the Shards. I've always headcanonned the Council of 12 as a pre-shattering institution that was never reestablished, and the Men and Women in Blue, White, Silver, and Gold are the real leaders. But if I did do the "one person per color- gender irrelevant" system described above, I'm totally down with the council of 12! (Or 13 so we can include Pink.) But that leaves the problem of figuring out which characters to preserve and which to retcon. Sooooooooo here's a list of every colorperson (god that word is even worse than colorfolk) that matters. Of note is that characters like Man In Orange, Man In Purple, Man In Gray, etc, despite allegedly being part of the command structure, never appear and are never characterized when they do. That's fine, there's a lot of characters, but it means I can transfer personality traits and powers from certain characters onto them without losing anything of value.
Man In Blue: No matter what, I'm betting the version of the Blue warrior that exists in the "present" of the story will always be male, and that's fine. Man In Blue has been the closest thing we have to a protagonist since the dawn of time, and I like having him around. His exact personality is a bit vague, but he's always been an intellectual, a good leader, a bit awkward sometimes, and has a snarky repartee with a lot of recurring villains.
Woman In Blue: Preserving Man In Blue means losing Woman In Blue in my system. That's fine, though. Melody in both canons was... eh. She was literally just Man In Blue's love interest in the old canon. There was some mention that she was a good diplomat but we never did much with that. In the new canon she's the leader of the faction and has a lot more going on, but the whole "anchor" thing I mentioned before made this version of Melody very controversial. Unfortunate. Maybe Melody can survive as the name of a colorwoman, but I suspect Daniel wins over Melody 999 times out of 1000.
Man In Gold: Man In Gold is one of the few colorfolk that actually feels distinct from the masses to me. He's the head archivist for the group, meaning he's always present for the reveal of new lore but not much of a fighter. He's also got a rare tragic backstory for 3WSR. His wife and son were both killed by either Man In Black or the Bronze Mage (the exact how of it was never revealed, but I imagine a car driving off the edge of a cliff on a stormy night whenever I think about it), leaving him deeply traumatized. In the old canon he had an arc with Woman In Silver about learning to love again, and in both canons his son actually survived and became Percy Silver (wife's still dead though sorry). Man In Gold is THE definitive gold.
Woman In Gold: Unfortunately, making Man In Gold the definitive Gold means I have to sacrifice one of my favorite colorfolk: Woman In Gold. The best martial artist among the colorfolk, Woman In Gold is a fun, quippy character that I always enjoy using. She also has a built in character arc revolving around her girlfriend, who doesn't know that she's a magic warrior. I wanna keep this character, but not as Woman In Gold. Brown is the closest to the mental image I already have of her, and the existing Man and Woman In Brown have no personality, so that's her new color, and she can stay on the council of 12.
Man In White: The brilliant tactician with the magic helmet. I've always portrayed him as kind of robotic and unemotional, but eh. I do genuinely like the more warm portrayal Frank gives him. That said, if Blue and Gold are gonna be men, I want White and Silver to be women. So we're gonna take the helmet and tactical mind of Man In White, and give them to...
Woman In White: Woman In White does have a defined role as the master magic user, but she's never got much personality (I did intend for her to have a drinking problem in the old canon, but again, eh). The role of magic master can go to... let's say Woman In Purple.
Man In Silver: Man In Silver is the most inconsistent character in the lore I swear to god. He's a happy, trusting (to a fault) guy, but he's also the last of the spirit colormen who helps lost souls reach the afterlife, but he's also a practicing Wiccan. Also he's happily married with three kids no matter what. I've already said my one Silver is gonna be a woman, but I want to preserve the character traits of this version. The wife and kids and happy disposition and wiccan thing can go to Man In uhhhhhh Cerulean. The spirit magic can be fused with Man In White's robotic version and given to Man In Gray.
Woman In Silver: I like Woman In Silver a lot, but the few traits she does have are directly in conflict to Man In Silver so I can't give them to her. She can't have a wife and kids, she's straight and single. She can't be a wiccan, she's a Muslim. She is always portrayed as Man In Gold's second-in-command in the archives, and I want to keep that. She's young and inexperienced, but she does her best. I do think she needs more hooks though.
Man In Black: HE STAYS THE WAY HE IS HE'S SO COOL
Man In Green: Ditto, but he's not cool he's lame in a fun way.
Man In Yellow: He has an established personality and I kind of want to keep him around. I'm flexible on the gender though.
Woman In Yellow: Can be fused with Man In Yellow
Man In Red: The Red Warriors are fun and I want to keep them. Gender can be randomized though.
Woman In Orange: I've done a lot with this character over the years. No one cares, but I'm keeping her.
Man In Off-White, Ghost White, Baby Blue, and Amber Apricot: Stays the same
Man In Heliotrope and Gamboge: I always wanted to use these two more
Man In Jet: Ditto
Man In FUCKING WHITE: Eyes? How'd you get in here?
Man In Bole/Capri/Misc gag colorfolk: Stays the same, gender optional
Man In Bright Turquoise: For all the grief I gave him for being OP, I do think he's one of Frank's most interesting and well-developed characters. I genuinely grew to like him and his arguments with his Id, and I want him around.
Man In Steel: Tug's signature character. I'm not touching him. I like him how he is.
Man In Bronze/Iron/Blood: I don't think any versions of them other than their new evil alter egos should exist in the present.
Man/Woman In Pink: Hoo boy. I had a whole arc for these two. It was cool, there was romance and magic and it ended with them being killed by the GHB and I foreshadowed it way back in early thread one. But it just never got done. I want to keep both characters in some capacity, though. Woman In Pink will retain the color and her personality. Man In Pink, AKA Shear, will remain the same but get a new color. I've regretted making the only unambiguously trans man in the game so associated with pink for years now, it seems like a bit of a dick move lmao. He can be... uh... Man In Aquamarine. There's someone who's been consistently used as a minor supporting character.
Man In Cornflower Blue/Dogwood Rose/Egyptian Blue/Infrared/Royal Blue/Navy Blue/Infrared/Cyan/Any other recurring colorfolk who consistently appear can stay, gender randomized.
Leaving us with:
Part Three: Toz Presents the Order Of The Prismatic Knights
The Order Of the Prismatic Knights was founded in 1095 by Matthew Erdagovern, a simple tailor who became advisor to the king after unlocking the power of an ancient artifact called the Prism. Many of the Order's members are descendants of the founder in some way or another.
The Order's warriors, known as Rays ("like rays of purifying light"), are devoted to the simple goal of protecting the common folk from tyranny and oppression in all forms. They hold back natural disasters, battle enemy mages, and even have deposed a corrupt king or two.
In 1657, however, Archbishop Nare of Saint Arthur's Bridge became convinced that the Rays were empowered by the devil. Corrupted by the influence by what many modern scholars believe was Metalicana or the Horned One, he recruited the help of the Order's ancient enemy, Vigaga the Toymaker, to destroy them once and for all. While Vigaga and Nare were killed, the damage was done. The Prism was infected by dark energy and had to be shattered to drain the evil from it. The ritual backfired, and the surviving Rays scattered, many of the once noble bloodlines lost.
Many years later, the current Man In Blue discovered his true heritage and set out to unite the squabbling faction. They reassembled the Prism, defeated the undead reincarnation of Nare, and were able to purge the remnants of Nare's corruption from the Order. The Order have returned to their ancestral home, but the magic world has massively changed around them.
The current "council of 13" that leads the Order consists of:
Man In Blue: The de facto leader of the faction.
Man In Gold: Record keeper of the great archives
Woman In White: Brilliant tactical mind and user of the Helmet of Cronk
Woman In Silver: Primarily works in the archives, close friends with Man In Blue
Man In Black: Formerly a leader of the Black Faction, the largest group of evil Rays that existed.
Woman In Pink: Formerly a powerful evil Ray
Woman In Orange: Teenage daughter of the villain "Vengeance Bringer", who left the Order for VEC once the curse was lifted.
Person In Red: Leader of the "Red Warriors", a special cavalry group of Rays.
Man In Yellow: Socially awkward but friendly guy
Man In Green: Massive Napolean Complex haver
Woman In Purple: The most powerful magic user in the faction
Man In Gray: The last of the Spirit Rays
Woman In Brown: Skilled martial artist
Other notable Rays:
Man In Steel: Motives and true allegiances unknown. May be the most powerful non-ascended Ray alive
Man In Aquamarine: Formerly a low-level GOD member named Shear. Associated with a powerful psychic, Adriana, who lives on Ordos near the Lagoon of Dreams.
Man In Bright Turquoise: Has ascended to a higher plane of being due to attaining perfect knowledge of how the laws of reality work. Not that much higher of a plane, though... he still has his human insecurities and psychoses.
Man In Amber Apricot: Currently a massive head floating in midair above the Great Hall of The Prism. It's fine.
Man In Cerulean: Leader of the Giant Rays, a group of Rays who can magically grow to giant size. Due to Woman In Orange's inexperience, often serves as the thirteenth seat on the council.
As you can see, not much has changed, I've just given more of a purpose to some members that were underdeveloped, and accidentally typed and had to delete the word colorfolk about 25 times. I don't think the Order solves everything (Rays is kind of cheesy), but I personally think these changes leads to a much more dynamic and interesting faction while preserving the idealism and goodness that defines the characters.
Next time: Do I dare nitpick Tug's baby SOM, or should I dive in to the GOD and the Magic Underground?
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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Apr 16, 2022 21:18:53 GMT -5
Toz I’m genuinely excited to read your version of 3WSR as outlined above if you ever want to write it.
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Post by Toz76 on Apr 17, 2022 0:42:58 GMT -5
I'm actually writing it! I'm making some compromises to fit with the old lore, but a lot of these changes are being used in a rewrite of 4WSR I'm working on. I actually posted an excerpt called "The Day The Music Died" a while back. I'm keeping "colorfolk" but making it clear it's a more recent slang term that not everyone likes, and I've come up with a convoluted reason why some specific colors can have two people so that Man and Blue and Woman In Blue can both exist but the "one person per color" thing can still be true, and I'm not calling them "Rays", but for the most part what I've written here will be true in this version. I'm very busy with college and dating and having a social life and college and getting a healthy amount of sleep and college, but I hope to have at least the first chapter done by summer!
I genuinely encourage everyone to have their own try at writing their own version of 3WSR. I know TGC is working on his version but I think it'd be interesting if all of us did. Our competing visions often led to stuff getting muddled and having every person write their own version might be an interesting experiment.
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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Apr 17, 2022 7:43:14 GMT -5
I definitely want to do that, I just also want to craft a unique identity for it and I don’t have a lot of ideas right now for where I’d even take it, hence why I’ve been focusing on LM instead. But I definitely wanna give it a go in the future.
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Post by Toz76 on Aug 17, 2022 18:07:21 GMT -5
TOZ PRESENTS: Servants of [REDACTED] A lot of the stuff in SOM, particularly character names, are taken straight from various anime. In old 3WSR, which was already TTTE fantiction, this wasn't really an issue, but for the new canon, that might be an issue. While I still love SOM and want to use them, I think it's worth doing some research to figure out what is original and what isn't. And since Tug is super busy, I'm just gonna use google instead of asking PLACES: Impel Down and Elbaf are both place names taken directly from One Piece. Deszeld appears to be an original name. CHARACTERS: The name "Metalicana", its status as an iron dragon, and its relationship to a character called "Redfox" all seem to be pulled straight from Fairy Tail. This is rather unfortunate, as he is the name of the faction. Him being a heavily corrupted former colorfolk and the deep loyalty due to gratitude his followers feel seems to be original, though. Vados appears to be the name of a character from Dragon Ball, but Doruk Mountainmover and Lady Aremur are original characters and Vados would just need a name change. These three characters are all collectively called the "Three Calamities", which appears to be a Buddhist concept but also a thing from One Piece? Redfox, as previously mentioned, is from Dragon Tail along with Metalicana. Hecate is a Greek Goddess, which is extremely public domain, and all her named subordinates appear to be named after Greek cities that had important temples to her, so unless there's an existing story with characters named that way I couldn't find, this one appears to be original (and genuinely super clever, mega kudos to Tug on that one). Tartaros, despite also being the name of a Greek god/concept, appears to be largely cribbed from Fairy Tail as well. Lord Ainz Ooal Gown is from a light novel, apparently. Ultear Milkovich is also a Fairy Tail character. These five characters are called the Five Dragoon generals, which appears to be a Tug original. "Five Dragon Generals" is a thing that pops up in an anime, but "Dragoon" is a real word that means something else (a type of cavalry soldier, if I'm interpreting wikipedia right) and there doesn't appear to be any "Dragoon Generals" anywhere in fiction outside of 3WSR. Now, let's move on to the Seven Deadly Sins. There's a character in Sword Art Online called "Raios", but he doesn't appear to bear much resemblance to our Raios. Sebaastian with two A's is also a Tug original. Stein, I'm not sure about, there's a couple different "Stein"s in fiction that this guy could crib from but he doesn't really resemble any of them. Keyes the lich is also a Tug original, as is Yao as far as I can tell. Monet I believe is a One Piece character, and Shalltear is from something called Overlord. The Nine Sons of the Dragon, a concept from Chinese mythology, is the name of this final group of characters. Zemlya doesn't appear to be from an anime, which is a relief as I like her a great deal. Dolor is also a Tug original. Sa'luk, meanwhile, seems to be from the movie "Aladdin and the King of Thieves", and while a character based around the story of the 40 Thieves is a neat concept, maybe not cribbing the name directly from a Disney film would be best. Raven the Undertaker, Gambler King Leo, "Swordsman Hunter" Kenji and Doctor Sterben all seem to be Tug originals. Pirate Prince Cavendish and his superpowered "Hack" alter ego, meanwhile, are straight from One Piece. So are pretty much all of the Impel Down staff except Salfraslatar. A lot of the prisoners from that arc, Suleiman and Jeet in particular, also seem to be One Piece characters. Finally, for the sake of thoroughness, it's worth noting that Edward "The Blood Alchemist" "Hohenheim" Amestris seems to be one big reference to Fullmetal Alcheimist, although it looks like he's sort of a hybrid of several characters rather than just a character lifted directly, which is much more aboveboard. I should note here that I am not trying to shame Tug here by doing this. There's nothing wrong with being inspired by other fiction and using it to create your story. That said, though, going forward we should really rework some of these characters to be more original, especially Metalicana himself. If you want my personal thoughts on what a revamped SOM might look like, allow me to present the Deszeld Empire, a very rough draft. The leader is still a large metal dragon, now called Lord Deszeld. The Three Calamities are more or less unchanged, except Vados might have a different name. The Five Dragoon Generals are almost completely changed. Hecate still remains, and a renamed version of Redfox too, but the rest of the characters are tweaked. Personally, I'd promote Keyes to the Five Dragoon Generals, as it was already kinda redundant to have two liches, and I'd also promote Yao and Sebastian to fill the remaining spots. The Seven Deadly Sins would be completely changed. Raios would still be around, but Dolor, Raven, Kenji, Leo, and Sterben would be raised up to his level. The seventh sin is up for debate, I'd personally advocate for Salfraslatar but I could be persuaded to have it be a reimagined version of Monet or Stein. Zemlya would occupy a new position outside the command structure as the heir apparent to Metalicana. The Nine Sons wouldn't exist. The roles of some characters would be tweaked to fill gaps left in the Deszeld Empire's structure. For example, since Cavendish is gone, someone else, say Redfox, would have to take the position of Naval Commander. Tug has said before that SOM in the new canon is a massive imperial power on the new canon's version of Elbaf. I'd have my version of the Deszeld empire be the same thing, but rename Elbaf (probably to Magykka, in the old canon Magykka was the ancient name of Sodor but I don't think that fits Ordos in the new canon). I'll have to go through the Elbaf lore at some point and mess with it, I'm no longer happy with elves and dwarves and all that existing in 3WSR and I wanna tweak it (the furries are staying tho). Obviously this is a very significant rewriting of the faction and it's not perfect, but I'm curious what y'all think.
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Post by Toz76 on Sept 11, 2023 6:18:19 GMT -5
Episode 4: The VEC strikes back
Is a joke funny if you tell it twice?
VEC has a lot of members. Most of them are gag characters. Some of them are fantastic. Are any worth keeping?
In BBB, I want to retain most of the VEC members. Even if it's just a small cameo (BBB is much more character focused than 3WSR has traditionally been, and I don't have the space to flesh out EVERYONE), it'd be nice to know that Blue Gilly and Captain Hypoglycemia are still hanging around. I might even recreate the original "bad recruits" scenes that we had such fun with back in the day. But are these jokes funny enough to put into my relatively serious character drama that I've inexplicably decided to write? And even in the much more comedically slanted TozWSR, do they still have a place?
I'm going to be giving each member a score, represented by a color:
BLUE characters are definite keepers. They don't need any reworking, they can get transfered over basically as is. GREEN characters need some light reworking, but mostly work fine YELLOW characters will need significant revisions but are still worth keeping around ORANGE characters are nearly unusable as is. They aren't unsalvagable, but would need HEAVY reworking to be used again outside of small namedrop cameos. RED characters are characters that are frankly unsalvagable. I'm probably not going to use them ever again. I expect there to be few if any red characters.
Rodney the Intern: Rodney is a classic character. The joke of a cult having an "intern" is really funny on its own, and the fact that he went on to actually be a really valuable member of VEC's propoganda wing makes it even funnier. There was an arc about him developing pond-themed powers of his own, but I think he works better as a one-note gag character with no powers.
Short Fuse: I'm conflicted because I love all these early recruits. I really do. But I need to decide if these gags are still funny to play straight in 2023, when we've already laughed about them for years. And honestly, "makes bombs that don't work" isn't that good of a gag in prose. If he were to be included, it would fully be as cannon fodder.
Stormtrooper: I don't remember anything from the Anime game but I understand he actually got used there? Wild. Stormtrooper has the same problem as Short Fuse and a lot of these other gag characters: the joke is funny once or twice, but ultimately they're so silly that any attempt to use them in a semi-serious way is near-impossible. I put him in cannon-fodder tier as well.
The Fist: The only reason he's higher than Short Fuse and Stormtrooper is because he has one hand noticeably larger and muscley-er than the other. The joke writes itself.
Doctor Laser: Did you know that in the original canon, Doctor Laser died?? I killed him off in an attempt to establish GOD as a credible threat. But the specific circumstances in which he died, and the fact that he managed to actually do some serious plot-relevant damage to a major(ish) character, means I fully want him around. Even when we were still playing VEC as a joke, we acknowledged that lasers in your eyes can blind people. Look I don't have a good explanation for this one I just like the guy.
Captain Hypoglycemia: I just don't think it's that funny anymore. BUT his powers are interesting. I'd probably change the name, but keep the powers in some form.
Mark: He's good at death.
Ocean Man: He's got actually useful powers, and he's just fun. A keeper for sure.
The General: Can I say something controversial? I never liked the General. I thought his joke was one of the weaker ones even at the time, and I didn't really understand how he became one of VEC's most consistent characters. That said, he's a classic, and VEC needs someone to give orders and devise strategies. However, I'd probably make some changes. I'd maybe demote him, and definitely give him a name. I might even completely cut the squeaky voice gimmick, at some point it became a total afterthought.
Sticky Hands: Same reasoning as the Fist. I'm sorry, but sometimes you gotta go for the obvious joke.
Owl Man: He's just really fun. He's one of my favorites of this original bunch of recruits. There's a really good gag from Frank where he reveals that he has a bunch of skills beyond just turning his head really far, and it's quite funny. I might make some tweaks, though, maybe emphasize his owlishness more.
Lightning Man: We have Percy Silver at home. I wanna keep him around, but as a way more competent version that's just a flat-out lightning mage. That said, anyone who was captured by SOM in the Impel Down arc deserves at least a yellow rating. Tug knew who to pick when he picked who got captured. It was exclusively characters with interesting powers and potential.
Catherine the Intern: Catherine always just faded into the background as a girl version of Rodney, and honestly what I'd probably just do is have them as a double act. They host the Horned One radio show or something.
Thunderclap: Now we're getting somewhere. While Wave One was held back by their powers being too specific and silly, wave two leaned away from the "incompetence" part of the recruits. So we end up with people like Thunderclap, whose powers are simple and effective.
Sebastian the Chef: Okay, look. The interns are funny. Obviously. But there's really no point in having a chef character prominently featured. I'll probably find an excuse to have someone say "have Sebastian whip something up for us", but I don't need to put any real focus on him. Also, Sebaastian exists too. The name similarity will get confusing.
Digitoid: I've kinda soured on the technology-based VEC members, they don't fit the theming of the faction as a magical cult, but I suppose if I lump them together as a division of VEC, there's still a place for Digitoid.
Phazer: Don't love the name, but I love the powers. And even then, terrible codenames is already a running joke in BBB (it's not all character drama, there's jokes in there too, it's about VEC for tug's sake)
Murd Megastone: The name is unbearably silly, and I'd probably just make him into a regular earth mage rather than a "rock thrower", but I've got a soft spot for the guy. Murd Megastone for president.
The Duplicator: VEC without the Duplicator is like seafood linguini without clams: it's probably still great, but don't you want clams? The Duplicator is a very important part of VEC lore and one I intend to cling to. Even as I debate getting rid of Hivemind for being OP, the Duplicator is still vital.
Man of Diesel: Yeah, we never did get around to the machinemen, did we. Well, maybe we can make them part of that tech division I mentioned earlier. Or, if we want to retain the "he's good and a spy" angle, maybe the Machinemen are part of the Magic Underground... I'm definitely changing his name, though, and maybe combining him with someone else. Sorry, Eyes.
The Salamander: Okay, so when I killed off Doctor Laser, I had him go down fighting because I respected his legacy as one of the first recruits. The salamander's dying words were literally just a joke about how his powers were redundant. And they really are. The VEC has so many fire guys. That said, there's no reason not to have an offhand reference to a fire mage named Salamander in the VEC ranks, so I might try to remember to fit that in.
Cracker Jack/Cracker Jill: First, let me get one thing out of the way: the word "cracker" is not a slur and we do not need to retire these characters as a result. Okay? Okay. If you can't handle being called a "cracker" I invite you to develop some real problems. That said, we never did anything with these two. Genuinely, their most memorable appearances either involve complaining about having no development or that time they got killed off by an SCP in that multiverse thing we abandoned. We never even established their powers. I always associated them with either firecrackers or, like, safecracking. I almost want to keep them around just to develop them.
General Colossomo: He is a master of wordplay and he can fly? We already have a general? Change his name to just Colossomo and maybe he's a keeper... but what does colossomo even mean, anyway? Kind sounds like "colossus", but he's not big. Thematically incoherent, but the name's cool. He can cameo. And maybe the idea that he's the General's "interpreter" is worth preserving, but again, two generals is a bit much.
Captain Dynamo: Okay thank god, it was beginning to come off like what I said about wave two was a lie. Let me just reiterate: a low score just means there's not a lot of potential. It doesn't mean I dislike them, it just means I have no ideas for how to use them. Captain Dynamo, on the other hand, is clearly powerful and I can get some use out of him in fight scenes. Again, anyone cool enough to get captured by SOM is alright by me. That said, I might remove the "captain", it's a bit too "superhero" for my tastes.
The Cushion: One of the best recruits, hands down. The Cushion is a favorite of mine. I don't even mind that the name is cheesy.
Derrick the Janitor/Tyler the Janitor: What's the joke? Diablo tower needs people to clean it. Annnnnnnd outside of silly "lower decks" style stories about the grunt workers of VEC, they don't need to be characters beyond the odd namedrop.
Eddie Denim: Clearly a favorite of Tug, who used him a lot, and frankly, I like him too. He's basically the 3WSR version of a bard, but evil. Definitely a keeper.
Lock-On John: Lock-On John is also in the "Tug adopted as his own" camp, and I like him too. The big difference between him and Eddie is that we already have Stormtrooper. Lock-On John is just a straight upgrade over Stormtrooper, and it's silly to have both. Maybe I can make that connection explicit in universe, but idk. I don't just want to combine them, but they don't really work as a double act... I like Lock-On John, though, is the point. A keeper.
Sonic Boom: "He uses sound based attacks" thank you Colorfolk wiki, you are an excellent source of information. I'm gonna keep him, I just have nothing for him to do.
Kraka Toa: Obviously effective in combat, the lack of story hooks is fine for a character like him.
Waka Tuka: Might be an odd call, but hear me out: objectively so many joke opportunities here. A lot of the earlier VEC recruits are too one-note, so I viewed their joke potentials as limited, but there are a lot of jokes that you can do with "limited aphasia", especially in a world where spells are just gibberish anyway.
The Hurler: When I'm writing a post, I will frequently use the forum's search to double check that I'm not forgetting anything important. I think it will interest you to know that outside of the Hurler's introductory post, where Frank gave him a single sentence, and one post about a baseball team made up of VEC members in the anime thread that never got used, the Hurler has only ever been mentioned in posts that list every member of VEC. He's never had a single line of dialogue after that intro post, never appeared in one of Tug's musical numbers, just list cameos. Like, even Owl Man got to do stuff. The Hurler. He picks up and throws things. I laughed so hard I almost hurled myself. Anyway, yellow because there's no reason not to use him.
Silent Night: Silent Night's cool. In 4WSR, I tried to establish her as Hohenheim's apprentice, but then 4WSR ran itself off the road, so that never materialized, and I don't think I have space for that in BBB. She's still definitely a major character worth including, though, and her stealth skills mean she'll get a lot of use on missions.
Heather the Sous Chef: Look, I'm sorry, I just don't have anything to say about the ones that are just "normal occupation". I'm not gonna retcon her, because the Bronze Mage needs to eat, but I'm also not going to write a seven-book epic about Heather the Sous Chef. Or a joke about her.
Kniitwiit: Objectively absurd power, but I like this one. I feel like at some point I had something resembling plans for this character, but I'm content to have them be just a recurring member.
:;:: It was funny to me at the time, okay? Might be still just funny enough to revive. But Inferno building a robot and then naming it ";:;" is frankly out of character, and Inferno barely has a character to be out of (that's a lie he's got a very clear characterization, but you get the point).
June: You can tell that Wave Three was entirely an afterthought. "Oh no we barely made any female characters, let's add a bunch of women! Don't worry about giving them powers, or anything. Heck, don't even give them codenames. Just call her "June". Good enough. Diversity achieved." I'm actually kind of annoyed about this. I'm gonna include her in BBB out of spite now. Maybe she'll be the General. General June "squeaky-voice" Anderson. Heck it.
Roxanna: What do you mean she's just June again? These two only ever appeared together, never had any established powers, and their most significant character beat was fawning over Suleiman (we'll GET to him). Gosh darn it. Christ on a bike. Fucking jeepers.
The Vixen: Now we're getting... adjacent to somewhere. Did you know that the Vixen was on a list of Eyes' favorite characters? And that she was briefly in 4WSR recruiting Gerard to join VEC? Wild stuff. Anyway, she's a master of deception, and that's all. EQUALITY ACHIEVED.
The Lioness: Lmao there's at least one post that says her ability to "hunt any beast" is "of limited use to the VEC". Harsh. I bet there's some usefulness there, I can already think of at least a couple ways to use her in BBB and TozWSR. There's a good point there, though, it's not THAT useful.
The Huntress: Allegedly, she's the Lioness's apprentice, and also one of Eyes' favorite characters! Oh, and Aremur calls herself a Huntress at one point, that's neat! Yeah, we really phoned in Wave 3, didn't we.
8135A: She's a pixellated skull... that's a piece of code come to life... I've said that I don't like the more tech-based recruits, and she is just tech. I suppose she can fit with :;: and Digitoid in the tech support team.
Vengeance Bringer: It's no secret that I had plans for this character. For those who have forgotten, Vengeance Bringer is the former Woman In Orange, who deserted the Colorfolk for VEC because she enjoyed causing chaos without consequence. She was and is a big part of my plans for 3WSR.
Charlotte Lace/Isabella Servantes "The Maids": You know there's only one post on the forum that refers to these two by name? They're usually just "Maid 1" and "Maid 2". They deserve better, most likely by actually getting to be part of SOM rather than just "spies" who don't do anything.
Silicia/Silicia's daughter: I've been really unimpressed by the diversity hires so far, and you're probably expecting me to say something like "having a woman defined entirely by her kid is bad". Well guess what? I think bringing your child to the cult compound and/or active battlefield is hilarious. I love Silicia. Also, that's just a cool name.
Gennaro/Beardsley: There's such a thing as too much Toz Deep Lore, so for your own sake I'll be brief. These two are cubii, part of Xex's mating group/conspiracy to take over the universe. Due to my beliefs about the 3WSR Multiverse, there are definitely 12 Cubii in the BBB universe manipulating things, but there's no guarantee that any of them have these names (although they probably do just for simplicity's sake).
Steve the Ripper: Steve has two really good jokes. One joke by Tug, where he waits outside Diablo Tower for like 10 pages hoping to get invited, and a joke by me where it's revealed that he's gotten powerful enough to rip anything, even spacetime. Also, the idea that he's Jack the Ripper reincarnated, and that the only thing he ever rips are his shirts because they're too small, are pretty funny too. I dunno how much use I'll get out of him, but I've got a soft spot for the guyAW CRAP the one male recruit of wave 3 gets a high score? Maybe the real sexist was inside me all along.
Barry The Chopper: Okay, we're about to run into the first and mildest example of a recurring issue that will continue to plague us for the rest of the list. Barry has a unique power set, being able to separate his body into pieces that can float independently and being effectively immune to slicing attacks. HOWEVER, Barry the Chopper is also the name of a character from Full Metal Alchemist. Now, that character is nothing like this Barry, but it does mean that if I use him (and I want to, his power is really neat), I'll have to change the name slightly. Barry Bodysplit? Idk I'll figure it out.
Ironside: His powers are pretty neat, although I'll likely change the backstory. Frank's suggestions for Wave 4 have some really great ideas in there.
Zero G: Super jumping is a niche power, but worth including.
Avian Man: He's literally just an air mage. He fits right in.
The Puzzle: Being a human jigsaw puzzle is neat, but there's just a bit too much overlap with Barry (the wiki even acknowledges this). I like him, though.
Caffeine Man: This is a Batman villain. I like him though. (I am losing steam at this point in the list)
Batman: Speak of the devil! Okay, here's the thing. The thing that makes this character funny is that his name is batman but he has nothing to do with the copyrighted superhero of the same name. However. That's the only joke. A character with baseball bats for arms is a silly gag, but like... how does he eat soup? How does he put on socks? How does he wipe his ass? It's not that I dislike the character, I really don't, but there's just no way I can make him fit. He's simultaneously too absurd to take seriously and too tragic and twisted to be just a gag in an otherwise serious story. Maybe, MAYBE, he can cameo as a Deszeld city beggar or something. But Batman doesn't work with my vision of VEC. I think in my heart, I knew, the red rating was made for him.
Chemical Man: He has to shoot acid or he'll die? Metal as hell.
The Dragon: The drawback of "breathing fire hurts his mouth" is logical and funny, however, VEC already has several fire guys. He's kinda redundant next to Inferno, the Salamander, Firebird, Kraka Toa, etc. Funny enough to cameo tho.
Super Stomach: Okay but does he have super teeth? Super intestines? A super esophagus? Because no matter how super your stomach is, concrete and lead are still gonna cause problems.
Cold Feet: The fairly surprising MVP of the Elbaf breakout is the guy who just makes ice patches wherever he steps. I love him.
Captain Cyanide: Close range poison darts that he manifests from thin air is certainly original... but I dunno how much mileage I'd get from it.
Bloodhound: He's got super-smelling, basically. I bet I could get a couple gags out of that.
X-Ray: ...I don't understand the utility of this power. I guess he'd make a good doctor?
Hot Potato: This power, on the other hand, is honestly underutilized. Throwing super hot projectiles at will? I love the "union regulated prison riot smoke break" gag that Hot Potato takes part in, but he could cook some dirt and throw it. His powers are useful. This is rapidly devolving into a stand up routine about VEC members.
Devil's Advocate: He literally has no powers. He's just a dick. I can probably use him for a couple jokes but he'd die quickly.
Strong Arm: I'll take "generic mook" for 400, Alex.
Night Light: So he just glows in the dark? To reiterate, Orange means I'll probably use him for a cameo or a one-off joke, but he can't be a real character without a serious rework. He's literally just a guy that glows and is an incel because of it.
Brain Drain: Is... is it permanent? He basically turns people into zombies. It would be a good source of Hivemind hosts on top of the obvious utility. This is a clearly useful power, maybe too effective.
Legal Eagle: Allegedly his only power is flight, but he also seems to have some supernatural ability to persuade. I like him, but I'd have him be just a flying lawyer. No need to get too absurd.
Number Cruncher: It's not a glamorous job, in fact it's a boring job for losers and people who want to retire before 80, but someone's gotta be the accountant.
Crocodile Brock: Who was going around doing all these body horror experiments? Was it Sterben? Actually, that could be a plot hook... my idle thought just bumped Crocodile Brock up a whole point.
Spider-Man: I know what I said about Batman, but hear me out: having six arms is way more practical than having zero. There's no way that name is staying though.
Fang: The idea of a toothless vampire is objectively hilarious, and I love the little moment to shine he gets in the Elbaf arc. A keeper for sure. I miiiiiiight give him a better name though.
Firebird: Firebird is great, but there's an obvious issue: he's just a direct upgrade over several other VEC members. Most of the flying members can't shoot fire and most of the fire members can't fly. Wait, did I say issue? I meant funny coincidence. VEC is a cult, it needs members, it doesn't matter if some have similar powers because that's just more bodies for the fight.
Brown Note: Another great one from Frank, this is a really simple, effective, but funny power. Doesn't need any bells and whistles or pathos, it's perfect.
Dravos: I probably had a plan for him at one point. It was probably related to Dravini, the goblin from the story game. But I'm not going to include goblins in BBB or TozWSR. Maybe there will be a Fey with that name or something, but idk.
Lampshade: I stand by this one. I love 4th Wall Awareness. I'll probably make it a bit more ambiguous how it works because the 4th Wall will remain relatively intact in BBB.
Winnie: If I need a second honey mage, I'll use her, but Honeybadger is plenty.
Deluge: Always room for a water mage.
History Buff: I recognize that I'm being kinder to my own creations here, but I really like the power he has. Seeing the past the way a prophet sees the future: fun gimmick. I can definitely get some use out of it. Miiiight tweak the name though.
God: You can really tell I was an edgy atheist, right? This isn't even the only time I did the "thing that is obviously not God is called God" thing, the Guild of Death is the more obvious example. Well, guess what, I am still an edgy atheist. But I no longer think the joke is that funny. I don't think God will appear in BBB, at least not as a "normal wizard man who can only do basic magic but calls himself god". I do like the idea of a mage with a god complex though. Transition would have saved her, or maybe just made her worse. (This will be really funny later I promise)
Spartaci: Hahaha, get it, eight assassins but they're all named Spartacus, like the movie Spartacus starting Spart A. Cus. Just funny enough to not cut entirely.
Deja Vu: I like the idea of one mind inhabiting two bodies, definitely less played out than the inverse. There's some potential here. Not sure the name fits though.
Ban: I am not fully convinced that Berserker Ban, who kills armies under an hour, is not from an anime. However, the only Ban I can find is one from an anime called "Seven Deadly Sins", and that Ban is very different from this one, so I'm torn. I'm still gonna tone down the anime badass warriorness though.
Blue Gilly: Is just from One Piece. We can't have blatant plagarism.
Eli Zanzibar Lee: Good news! Eli Zanzibar Lee is a Tug original. Bad news! We have PIC at home. I like him, I just don't know whether he'll be part of VEC or get absorbed into the PIC. I'll also go ahead and include Sal Brown and Franky Pett, his first mate and shipwright, as well.
Balor: Uh-oh. The rainbow for God was a gag, but this one is really a problem. You see, Balor is a monster from Celtic mythology, so it's fine to have a character named after that. But Balor's characterization and monikers come directly from Seven Deadly Sins. (Incidentally, I was gonna have Ban be green, but this confirmation that Tug was inspired by that anime at the time these characters were created makes plagiarism much more likely.) What saves Balor is that he's a giant named after a giant from mythology. I can maybe make it work, or create a similar character with a different name. VEC is gonna need a giant ambassador while they're in giant lands. I also have to issue a correction to my SOM post. Dolor isn't actually a Tug original but an alternate translation of the same character as Balor.
Suleiman: HOO BOY this is the entire reason I made this post and now that I've gotten here I'm too exhausted to go in depth. Suleiman the beheader is a character from One Piece. Prince Sul'ei Reisokar, however, is a Tug original as best as I can tell. And one I have ideas for. I think what happened here is that Suleiman started as a blatant ripoff, however Tug evolved the character into something different, something more. Stuff like his past with Adrianna is a prime example of that. And you know what? I have a perfect place for a character like this in TozWSR. It's probably nothing like what Tug intended, but he can just go make TugWSR.
Jeet: That said, Jeet is just a character from One Piece ported over 1:1. Maybe Prince Sul'ei will offhandedly mention a lieutenant by that name, but I don't wanna be even in the neighborhood of plagiarism.
Abdul: Ditto Abdul. Also from One Piece. Seems slightly more namedroppable than Jeet though.
Soapsud: I no longer find the idea of a soap mage nearly as funny as I did when I created this character. And unless that changes, he's probably not getting the mini-arc I had been toying with.
Painkiller: Introduced as a "reverse Paincauser", she quickly settled into a recurring role as one of VEC's medics, and I like her there.
Bowen: Eli's navigator, and therefore as usable as his captain turns out to be.
Miraj: An illusionist and apprentice of Chaos. I like her. I can use her.
All'karn, Runforlis, Apo s'tro-ph'e, Grandolis, Drepa Nauðgun Og Ræna: The Five Dragon Generals. I dunno if they'll appear. For one thing, the names are so goofy (Apo s'tro-ph'e?). For another, VEC doesn't need five last-of-their-kind dragons. But, hey, I might find some way to fit them in.
Finally, a much deserved shoutout to the VEC members and aspirants mentioned in a single post and then never again, Aldrion and Ima Eedeot. Rest in piece, friends.
Okay so what was the point of all this? Honestly, mostly to refresh my memory of the various VEC members, but also to see if they hold up. I think I was a bit too harsh overall. Most of these are still pretty funny. It's just that for my purposes, trying to make a version of VEC that takes itself seriously, I need more than just "pretty funny".
Honestly it's past 4 AM and this was only supposed to take like an hour, if this doesn't make sense when I wake up I'll rewrite it.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Sept 11, 2023 13:28:29 GMT -5
*actually it turns out “Ima Eedeot” was a joke name Nessetarina used during her brief career with VEC
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Post by Toz76 on Sept 11, 2023 21:30:40 GMT -5
Oh was it? I missed that bit, my bad
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