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Post by frankthetriviaman on Dec 13, 2023 1:07:06 GMT -5
We find ourselves in a courtroom in a realm that seems outside of the normal reality. Nothingness extends in most directions, but we focus on the judge’s bench where we see the Writer sitting. Then, approaching the table across from him a familiar face appeared. Frank had returned, and this time it was of his own will.
“Been a long time, hasn’t it? Now Frank, I understand that you are hear today to make a major change to Colorfolk lore, is that correct?” The writer asked with a raised eyebrow.
”indeed I am, your honor. Good sir, I am here today to make the case that the War of the Shards has outlived its usefulness to the canon. Not only does it go against the world’s internal logic and makes no sense in terms of narrative logic, but we will make it a point to show that later developments have proved the war moot, and if we go in a new direction, it will be far more beneficial to colorfolk lore overall”. Frank said
”Just so we are clear Frank… you are not doing this because you don’t like the direction the war of the shards went in 4WSR, are you?” The writer pointed out
”No, he is not” a voice said, as Frank was joined by Man In Blue. “While it is true he doesn’t agree with the direction it went in 4WSR, it has less to do with personal preference and more to do with concern over the fact that critical things were ignored in the story for the sake of creating drama. But it is an irrelevant point; Frank has made it clear in past chats that he has “surrendered” when it comes to 4WSR and will no longer be posting there due to a disagreement over narrative direction. While Frank does have great respect for Toz and Tug’s contributions, it was clear that Frank’s ideas were…”
”I’ll speak for myself” Frank interjected. “I respect what they wanted to bring to the table; however it was clear no one liked the ideas I wanted to use and rather than force them down their throats, the best course of action was to step away from that canon. Which brings me to the point we are focusing on today- The War of the Shards has been greatly misunderstood due in part to a lack of communication among the writers. I take responsibility for that, and I intend to atone for my lack of foresight on that point. Among other things I intend to address, I will cover what it is, what it was supposed to become, and from there, why the premise is flawed, problematic and against the world’s logic. I may have to go on some tangents here and there, but rest assured everything spoken here will be relevant to the matter at hand; it’s just this is a complex, multi-faceted issue that needs to be addressed from several directions in order to fully understand the problems with it. And I will be having help on this matter as well” Frank finished.
”From Man In Blue? I mean he credible but hardly one who can speak for the whole canon” the writer pointed out
”Actually, I’m talking about Man In Black” Frank said as to the writer’s surprise, Man In Black walked up to the table and took a stand alongside the other two.
”as much as I hate to admit it. They are right. And I intend to use my own words to convey why the war of the shards doesn’t do the lore any favors… especially me” Man In Black said with conviction.
………
When the Colorfolk were first introduced in 2015, the War of the Shards was the arc that helped establish their prototype concepts and establish them as the characters that defined 3WSR. As time went on though, the original story lost and the canon developed, it was clear that the War of the Shards no longer serves a truly meaningful purpose; when the better ideas that came later are considered it is clear Colorfolk lore is better off without it. In this thread, the case will be made that the colorfolk and 3WSR are better off without this civil war premise. This is… the case against the war of the shards.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Dec 13, 2023 1:50:34 GMT -5
PROBLEM ONE: MAN IN BLACK IS AN OBJECTIVELY TERRIBLE VILLAIN
”Your honor, the war of the shards was initially created for one purpose: to offer a mechanism for the colorfolk to be developed individually, so that unique personalities could emerge and they wouldn't all sound the same and upon our redemption and the faction’s reunification, we could draw from different backgrounds and ensure a good variety of characters while maintaining a consistent theme that unites them. It is clear… that fell flat” Man In Black began, but the writer raised an eyebrow. “Ok, ok… so that was something that was figured out later, but the point still stands. This was supposed to be a means of allowing different directions of character development. It was kinda there…. But the end result was not the best.” Man in Black sighed.
”how so?” The writer said with his curiosity peaked.
”Let’s look at the elephant in the room- me. I am a terrible villain character, borderline pathetic, even. A villain should have a presence that just screams “I’m going to cause problems for the hero!” And well… I’m a joke. Look at how I am- I’m an insane idiot who only got shards by pure dumb luck or brute force, when quite honestly I shouldn’t have ANY shards! Hell, I should be the one having the most trouble getting shards, not the blue faction” he continued
”why is that?” The writer asked in confusion
”we'll address that in a later point because it’s not relevant just yet. So, here I am, this insane idiot who is supposed to be after the shards… why? Why, I ask you?” Man in black asked the writer
”well… do you have a reason?” The writer followed up with.
”exactly! I have no motive, I don’t stand for anything! Even early on the blue faction had clearly defined goals and a reason for getting the shards and reassembling the prism: to restore the prism meant to restore the colorfolk, “shine the light in the darkness” if you will. But then there’s me, I have a crazy desire for shards… why? Well, you could argue that’s the anchor curse at work, but that’s not a very satisfying explanation, especially when you consider how there are dozens in my faction with the same goal, and none of them have said curse. Which brings me neatly to my next point- how can I be in charge of a faction when I’m clearly ineffective due to my insanity- I literally told off a comrade who had a good idea by saying “I don’t give a damn about (idea), I only care about the shards!” Now I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t feel really inclined to follow a leader who is off his rocker. Sure, you can argue that Man In Yellow was intimidated into his position, but Woman In Orange? Man In Red? No way that happened.” Man In Black explained.
”I still don’t see the issue here” the writer asked.
”Because we haven’t looked at the big picture yet. The War of the Shards is supposed to be a civil war, good vs evil, light vs dark, knowledge vs ignorance. Now admittedly some people do like a simple good vs evil story, but the key issue here is motivation, as I alluded to before. In a story like this, in order for a civil war to work both sides need to at least be somewhat sympathetic given the nature of the conflict at hand- like Captain America: Civil War. And for the blue faction that’s easy- what they want to do is wholly sympathetic. But me- I don’t just stand for nothing, I don’t have a moral leg to stand on. Yes, I’m evil but in these kinds of stories even the villains should at least have some sort of point to make; instead I'm just there to prevent the Blue faction from getting shards. That’s not being a villain, that’s just an annoyance at worst and a narrative obstacle at best.
”so you’re saying the problem is your lack of character?” The writer asked
”exactly! I have no motivations or reasons behind what I do! I just “want shards”… but why do I want them?! It was said on numerous occasions they are useless to me and it’s true… not only do I have no means of reforming the prism, even if the prism was reformed it would just purify me and the blue faction still wins anyway”
”wasn’t there something about man in black being able to corrupt the prism?” The writer pointed out
”actually your honor” Frank began, “we never got far enough in the story for it to be revealed, but it was going to be a major development that it turned out that was a lie implanted in his subconscious by the anchor curse; in truth only the spirit can affect the prism, and even then the prism would never be corrupted, for reasons we will get to when they are relevant” Frank explained.
”ok, enough with the side tracks. What is the point here?”
”in conclusion, your honor” Man In Black began, “the first problem with the war of the shards is me. I am a terrible villain due to factors including my lack of motivation, my poor characterization, the illogic behind the members of my faction following me willingly despite my obvious insanity, and just the general problem that, when you take the implications of the anchor curse into account, I had to have been a somewhat normal person prior to becoming Man ln Black. So to be reduced to an insane idiot just because my father passed it onto me? Even you have to admit that thematically, that’s really ridiculous” Man In Black finished.
”as a matter of fact, that leads us into our next point” Man In Blue said as he took over
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Dec 13, 2023 19:48:34 GMT -5
PROBLEM TWO: THE ABSURD TIMELINE OF THE WAR OF THE SHARDS, AND THE DARK IMPLICATIONS THAT COME WITH IT
”In our first look at flawed narrative logic" Man In Blue began, "I bring to your attention the absurdity of the timeline involved here. Now as we know, it was established that the Colorfolk were established in 1095, the shattering took place in 1657, and the Colorfolk were restored somewhere in the late 2010s, given the lack of reference to Covid in canon. So, the implication is that the civil war lasted over 3 and a half centuries" he continued.
"That's basic math though; where does the absurdity come in?" The writer asked as he looked at the evidence.
"Think about the implications with this. You're going to sit there and tell me that the same two groups of people spent over 360 years fighting each other, and somehow during all of that time, neither side gained an edge over the other? You expect me to believe that the members of the black faction were able to find time to stop being evil long enough to find love and start families?" Man In Blue pointed out.
"If I can add onto that point" Man In Black stated, "you expect me... no, ANYONE to believe that a psychotic, shard obsessed idiot like me, and my ancestors for that matter, were able to find partners and have children? Please tell me you see this to: if I'm a shard obsessed to the point of shooting down the more rational members of my faction, where does me finding the time to fall in love come in? Think about it- at no point was there any indication that I had any semblance of a life outside my crazed obsession with shards. If I'm so focused on my end goal, where does a lover enter the picture?" Man In Black stated.
"Well, there's always a more forceful approach by you and your ancestors and... oh, ahem, I see your point now" The writer said, disturbed by the point Man In Black was saying.
"And if I, and my ancestors on that point, were being "forceful" about it, sure you can pin the blame on the anchor curse for that too, but in reality that just makes the situation even worse" Man In Black pointed out.
"Now, this is where I have to come back to the issue of the timeline" Frank said, feeling that this point had been well addressed now "3 and a half centuries... that's at least 15-20 generations. Now, if this war were 2 or 3, even 4 generations, I could buy that. But 15 to 20? Come on, by then you are so far detached that we're talking people who have no memories of people who experienced the initial events, witnessed the initial events, or even knew people who witnessed the events. Now I do concede that I established colorfolk do have the ability to speak to their deceased ancestors while they are sleeping, and some individual ancestors can appear a la force ghosts, but if we're talking a great-great... a whole lot of greats to these grandfathers, do you expect a familial connection to be felt? It was never clearly established how often they talk to their ancestors, or even if all of them do so, so even being generous by assuming that every Colorfolk has the freedom to experience these things as they please, you expect to feel the same way about them as you do a grandfather or even an uncle? Even if they are blood relatives, theres no guarantee of feeling close to them, even with the dream visits. I do acknowledge I did make Daniel have an affinity for his ancestors, but that's him as an individual, that doesn't mean they are all like that" Frank continued.
"On a related point, if I'm obsessed with finding shards, do you REALLY think I care about what my ancestors think?" Man In Black added. "Which makes me realize- say I saw my father, anchor curse and all, and I saw how crazy and stupid he had become with the curse. You think I'm going to want to inherit a power like that? No! If I am a rational person, as was implied of my state prior to getting the curse, my first choice is going to be cutting myself off from my father and never associating with him; better to let the anchor curse die and Man In Black become a lost lineage than to perpetuate such an awful cycle" Man In Black stated.
"Then there's the obvious" Man In Blue said, "I find it highly unlikely that after all this time, our factions would still maintain steady levels of membership. Once we hit the 21st century, don't you think its actually LESS believable that no one has defected, or thrown up their arms, or even pointed out "What's the point of all of this?" he continued
"Well you did establish that the Prism had enormous significance to the magic world and and it implied to be an iconic symbol of the Golden age of magic, so restoring it would be a huge deal" The Writer pointed out.
"One hundred percent true, your honor. But after literal centuries of accomplishing nothing, don't you think its actually quite reasonable for members of BOTH parties to become rather disillusioned and just throw in the towel and move on with their lives" Man In Black clarified.
"In conclusion, the idea that this civil war can last over 3 and a half centuries and not one shred of change can come to the status quo is absolutely absurd. Hell, its pretty obvious the shards would not be scattered worldwide since the shattering took place in a time where global travel was not practical. Therefore, if the shards never left Ordos, you expect us to believe that most of them remained undiscovered for that long? Ordos is not that big an island, so what, our factions were filled with headless chickens? Are you starting to see how stupid we look from the implication of a civil war on ONE island that lasted that long?" Frank stated.
"And even if they moved to that new island near the states... what, did the shards just magically teleport there before being found? Either that's the world's biggest coincidence, or the shards and new generation of colorfolk just so happened to end up on the same new island all those years later? Either way, the premise is REALLY flimsy" Man In Blue said.
"Maybe if it was 10 or twenty years I could suspend my disbelief... but 360 years is just ridiculous" Man In Black stated.
"After hearing all of that... I'm actually inclined to accept this argument" The Writer conceded.
"Thank you; now that this is addressed, we will move onto the next point" Frank replied
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Dec 13, 2023 22:21:20 GMT -5
PROBLEM THREE: AT A FUNDAMENTAL LEVEL, EVIL COLORFOLK CAN'T EXIST AND THE PREMISE IS REALLY UNINTERESTING
”Now what do you mean by "they can't exist" Frank? The Black faction's whole thing is that they are the evil ones" The Writer pointed out.
"And back when the canon was simpler and an endless joke fest, that worked just fine. But as things became more developed and the lore more fleshed out, it became clear that evil colorfolk just don't work anymore" Frank explained.
"How so?" The Writer asked.
"Well, here's the thing Your Honor. Being a "colorman" or "colorwoman" is so much more than just a title. It isn't just a mage walking around in a monochrome robe and carrying their artifact. No, Colorfolk are so much more than that. Colorfolk are meant to be modest intellectuals; guardians of the magic world who seek to protect it from those who would destroy it, and facilitate the exchange of knowledge across the magic world. As a matter of clarity let me state for the record the true role of the Colorfolk in the magic world, as seen during their first era. Ordos was the center of the magic world, a hub that mages far and wide would come to; and the Colorfolk were the guardians of that hub, considered a very symbol of the magic world. The frequent invasions of Ordos cemented the Colorfolk as the legendary sworn protectors of the magic world, ensuring its survival even as time marched on" Frank explained.
"That's all well and good, but the colorfolk" The Writer reminded Frank
"Yes, of course. See, for the same reason evil factions wouldn't have good members in them, a good faction like the colorfolk wouldn't have evil members in it; they wouldn't be attracted to the Colorfolk's principles and seek membership elsewhere where they can find like minded people" Frank explained.
"Which leads to the shattering in 1657" Man In Blue continued. "It was pretty clearly established in the golden age of the colorfolk they had no evil members; so you expect the mere act of breaking the prism to suddenly create evil members, and arbitrarily decide which ones were good and which ones were evil" he added.
"Hell if you want to be technical its clear there are those in my faction who aren't even really evil; as I stated earlier the timid Man In Yellow was more than likely intimidated into staying in my faction" Man In Black pointed out
"But more on point- it ties into my belief on what a hero is supposed to be. The colorfolk aren't just protagonists they are heroes and as I've stated in prior discourse a hero is so much more than a character. What sets them apart is that a hero is meant to be an inspiration; someone who you look up to and it inspires you to be a better person. In the case of colorfolk, they are heroes because their actions are motivated by their desire to protect the magic world from those who would destroy it, or misuse its knowledge for selfish gain" Frank explained.
"Why do you keep going back to knowledge as a talking point?" The Writer asked.
"As I developed the colorfolk from being more than just gag characters I finally figured out what it was that made them tick. The colorfolk, you see, are meant to be guardians of knowledge. In this story, I have intended to use light as a metaphor for knowledge, and the idea is that what makes the Colorfolk special is that they, and the Prism, are meant to embody light. I don't remember who said it, but years and years ago I heard a quote that really stuck with me: darkness cannot thrive wherever light shines. In this case, because the Colorfolk embody light, i.e. knowledge, and in some instances hope, that means that by logical deduction, they cannot have darkness in them because of the light they were gifted by the prism"
"So an evil colorman or woman... someone who has cast out the light?" The Writer asked.
"Exactly. By casting out the light of knowledge, they are cursed with the darkness of ignorance. Now sure, you can say that neither of these are inherently good or bad, but that's not the point. What makes the colorfolk significant is the fact that they were blessed by the spirit and prism with incredible, world-changing knowledge that fundamentally changed the magic world. It ties into a genuine belief of mine that knowledge is the greatest tool that man has, and when used to help, we all benefit from it."
"Is the implication that by embracing the path of evil, colorfolk become weaker because they become ignorant?" The Writer asked.
"Bingo. Because knowledge is a strength, the deeper meaning is that evil colorfolk have crippled themselves because by casting out the light of knowledge... the knowledge that makes us who we are, by the way... we have embraced the darkness of ignorance, and there's no way we can win at that point because at a fundamental level, ignorance does not beat knowledge" Man In Black added.
"I would have more properly explored these at different points in the story, but out of respect to Tug who is not a fan of lore dumping, I didn't go into these things because they weren't relevant at the time" Frank clarified.
"I think I get it now. Because knowledge is so fundamental a strength and aspect of the Colorfolk, and metaphorically represented by light, by casting out the light they cast out the knowledge... and by extension, cease being colorfolk" The Writer stated.
"precisely. "Evil colorfolk" cannot exist because it goes to the deeper meaning of what the colorfolk represent. An evil colorperson cannot exist... because once they reject the light of knowledge the reject the very basis of being a colorman or woman, and at that point are just a mage" Frank
"Taking away a Colorperson's knowledge is like taking away a member of VEC's desire to awaken the Great Horned Beast... you take away the fundamental aspect that defines the faction" Man In Blue said.
"Ok, I think you've made your point as far as this half of the issue. But why is it uninteresting?" The Writer asked.
"3WSR is an expansive world with all sorts of players in it. Colorfolk vs VEC, that was interesting. Colorfolk vs SOM, that was interesting. Hell, any one of the different factions they faced during their time defending Ordos, that was interesting. So why the hell do we keep coming back to Colorfolk vs Colorfolk? With all the interesting pieces we have to work with, why are we having this one faction fight each other?" Frank pointed out.
"Yea, and while the Blue faction at least has clearly defined goals, motives and principles, the Black faction has... nothing. We just exist to be an obstacle for the Blue faction. As I iterated prior, we don't have any depth, we just exist to be an obstacle for the Blue Faction. No, the other fights and match ups are way more interesting, and that's because they are not Colorfolk, it is the fact they are different that makes the match up exciting. VEC for instance, they are not the "Anti-colorfolk" or evil versions of the Colorfolk, they are their own thing, and they stand on their own two feet because their goals and motives are defined. So why do we keep coming back to the match up with no depth or interesting elements to it?" Man In Black pointed out.
"On a related note, I feel I should mention that one reason they are uninteresting is that the Fallen/corrupted character archetype is the least interesting of the villain archetypes. At least with the mastermind or the embodiment of evil, there's something compelling going on. But the fallen... the Fallen archetype is really uninspired and feels rather lazy. Original villains are way more interesting, because their separated stories allow them to stand on their own two feet versus being in the shadow of the heroes" Frank explained.
"I was good, and now I'm not because I inherited a curse from my father. That's not compelling, that's flimsy at best; you might as well have made it that I became evil because someone snapped their fingers or pinched my elbow" Man In Black argued.
"Even if he is also a fallen, at least Bronze Mage cast off his identity as a Colorman and became his own thing; he's compelling because he didn't stay in the shadow in the Colorfolk, he was allowed to blossom into his own identity" Man In Blue added.
"Quite Frankly I think I would be even more interesting if I wasn't a former Colorman at all; let me stand on my own two feet! Let me have my own backstory not shackled to you lot!" Bronze Mage called from the audience.
"A fair point, but this trial isn't about that, is it?" The Writer asked rhetorically.
"Yes; now if you give us just a minute, we will proceed with our next point" Frank said as he organized the next argument
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Dec 13, 2023 23:44:05 GMT -5
PROBLEM FOUR: THE WAR OF THE SHARDS HONESTLY COMES ACROSS AS A DISTRACTION IN A WORLD FULL OF MORE INTERESTING THINGS
"Compared to other problems in this presentation this one is small, but still worth bringing up" Frank began. "Our lore is rich and deep, and encompasses many things. We could cover one of the many wars from the Colorfolk's golden age, we could have an adventure in the Magic Underground or on Elbaf. Yet somehow, we always go back to one faction that is fighting with itself. If I'm being honest, seeing the Colorfolk help rebuild the magic world in the wake of the dark times is a far more interesting premise than seeing them squabble among themselves. In addition, as previously explained this is in line with the Colorfolk's role as stewards of knowledge for the magic world" Frank explained.
"But we really didn't see that much in previous canons, did we?" The Writer asked.
"True, but that was because it wasn't relevant yet and there wasn't a need to bring it up just yet. But for example, Man In Gold and Man In Silver are frequent guest lecturers at the magic academy due to being among the highest authorities on Magic history and The Spiritual, respectively. Plus, given Man In Gold's role as archivist, the leap from that to Steward of Knowledge isn't all that high" Frank pointed out.
"By any chance, does this relate to how you will reimagine what era takes the place of the War of the Shards?" The Writer asked.
"Indeed it does. I have a few more points to cover before I explain what the replacement will be though, so if you could wait until then I would be grateful" Frank explained.
"I understand" The Writer said, as the team prepared their next talking point
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Dec 14, 2023 0:26:57 GMT -5
PROBLEM FIVE: OVERCOMPLICATING THE WAR OF THE SHARDS TOOK AWAY MORE THAN IT ADDED, AND IN NARRATIVE THE OTHER FACTIONS HAVE NO LEG TO STAND ON
"Now look, I respect the creative decisions Tug made in 4WSR, but I have to give my constructive criticism: while his ideas were good, the problem was they completely missed the point. The caravan crew, the Helado gang, the Knuckleheads, each and every one them had absolutely no reason to get involved in the war. Now admittedly I was the one who brought the caravan into the story, but my intention was to make them outside observers, nothing more. Toz was also guilty of this too by getting VEC involved, but she did not do it to the extent Tug did. I would even say that an argument can be made that the introduction of Prismatic Knight, while interesting, caused more problems than it solved because 1) it prolonged an arc that we were supposed to be wrapping up and 2) it created artificial drama that ultimately doesn't do anything for the story except create a distraction and ignore the previously established deeper meanings of the Colorfolk" Frank began.
"At any rate it doesn't make sense for the other factions to get involved, the shards are useless to them, and the Blue Faction needs to be the ones who restore the prism in this scenario anyway" Man In Blue explained.
"Wait wait wait... why does VEC want shards anyway? And why does it have to be the Blue faction that restores the Prism?" The Writer asked.
"To answer your first question sir: it was something about using the shards to summon the Great Horned Beast... which is impossible anyway because the GHB is clearly extremely weak to Prism magic and very susceptible to damage from it" Man In Black explained.
"That's a bold claim" The Writer observed.
"My ancestor literally killed it using only our Prism-magic infused javelin and prism powered lightning magic. For an "all powerful beast" it sure went down really, really easily" Man In Black pointed out.
"In my defense I never said it was a GOOD plan!" Bronze Mage called out from the audience
"ANYWAY, the complexity issue?" The Writer asked.
"Certainly, your honor. Superficially, complexity is nice as it offers a variety of perspectives. But in the case of the war of the shards, complexity can't be in the equation because of the ending it needs and not the ending that anyone in particular wants" Frank explained
"And what is the ending that the War of the Shards needs?" The Writer asked.
"The Blue faction has to win and unequivocally, decisively defeat the Black faction. Not necessarily because it is a triumph of light over dark or good over evil, but because it is the triumph of knowledge over ignorance. Man In Black doesn't necessarily lose because he is weak, but because he is ignorant" Man In Blue explained.
"Yes; I should be the one having the most problems getting shards, not the blue faction. And the reason is simple: Because I rejected the light of knowledge that defines what makes colorfolk who they are, by extension I allowed myself to be swallowed by the darkness of ignorance. And because I am in "darkness" I metaphorically cannot see what is right in front of me; I am an insane, ineffective commander who only got things done by either dumb luck or brute forcing a problem; I never thought things through and as seen when I was reduced to, and I quote, a "feral animal" I let instinct take over and that never ends well. What should have happened was that I always fell short of getting shards because since I am in darkness, I failed because I couldn't "see" what was there. I'll say it again for emphasis- I don't lose because I am weak, I lose because I am ignorant" Man In Black finished.
"So then... how did you get so many shards in the 4WSR?" The Writer said with a raised eyebrow
"I think I brute forced about 3 of them... others I think my comrades found off screen... and really I only had them as a means to create drama... which in retrospect was completely forced; narratively it would have been better if I didn't have any shards for the reasons described prior" Man In Black explained.
"The point is" Man In Blue picked up, "the deeper meanings were lost, and even trivialized by introducing elements that, quite honestly offered no substance to the conflict and only were there to increase drama."
"Drama should not be created for the sake of drama; drama should exist as a means to drive the plot forward or motivate a character, but it shouldn't be forced or artificial" Frank explained
"Oh, this is more of a side note but it needs to be stated for the record" Man In Black added. "It also doesn't help that my faction, or any other faction for that matter... none of us have a leg to stand on in the War of the Shards. The Blue Faction not only possesses the Right of Custodianship over the shards; a sacred rule in the magic world where violating it is the second biggest taboo in magic society, but as with real world laws against theft, it is illegal in the magic world to possess that which you do not own, so they also win in that regard, but you also have to remember that while other factions have rather selfish reasons for wanting shards, the Blue Colorfolk want to restore the prism for completely altruistic reasons because restoring the prism will benefit the magic world with its "light of knowledge" restored" Man In Black explained. "In short, because the Blue colorfolk win the Moral, Ethical and Legal arguments... every other faction has no leg to stand on in the war of the shards, and by extension, have no particularly compelling reason to be seen in a sympathetic light by the reader; in relation to the points we described prior on how in a civil war both sides need to at least have some degree of sympathy for this kind of story to work" he finished
"We will now get the next talking point ready” Man In Blue said
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Dec 14, 2023 20:36:03 GMT -5
PROBLEM SIX: THE UNDERLYING REASONS BEHIND THE SHATTERING OF THE PRISM ARE LOGICALLY FLIMSY
"Let's shift focus to the causal event itself- the shattering of the Prism" Frank explained. "Now some facts about it are established: Man In Steel and his hammer are the cause of the event itself according to Tug, and I've proposed 2 distinct reasons for why it happened: either it was in response to the anti-magic sentiments of the normal world, or it was to destroy the pools of magic on Ordos. Upon reflection of this scenario, I have come to the conclusion that both are narratively illogical, and if there is no narratively logical cause for the shattering, then the clear conclusion is that we cannot have the shattering, and by extension the war of the shards" Frank finished.
"Why are both premises flawed?" the Writer asked.
"Let's start with the more well known one" Man In Blue said. "Even if there was a rise in anti-magic sentiment, is that REALLY a reason to destroy the prism and weaken our powers? No! We're a faction of intellectuals for crying out loud, we'd be looking for a more well-thought out, and possibly more elaborate solution" he continued. "Just because the rest of the world despises magic does not mean we have to destroy something that has no effect on them. No, the better solution is to focus on the element that actually makes sense- going underground and "disappearing" from the normal world. They don't have to shatter the prism to do that; hell, one would argue its a more compelling story for them to use their powers from the shadows versus out in the open in the regular world" Man In Blue continued.
"But how would you go into hiding? With the Great Hall and all" The Writer asked.
"Simple- pull a page out of the SCP foundation and fire off a cognitohazardous spell that causes the affected to lose all memory of magic, the magic world and us, and to only think of the Colorfolk as historic legends a la King Arthur. The Great Hall already has a perception filter making it impossible to be found by normal people" Man In Blue explained. "So going into hiding already has the mechanisms in place to work"
"I want to ask what will replace the shattering; but before that we need a clear answer: Why is this setup logically flawed?" The Writer asked.
"Again, just because there is anti-magic sentiment doesn't mean we will seek to destroy our powers as a result; it’s called having integrity. And then there are two more points we can argue here: say we did remove our powers, then what? Think about the time period: even if we removed our powers you think the normal people will have a change of heart and accept us? No, they will think we are lying and execute or imprison us anyway- Salem Witchcraft trials anyone?" Man In blue stated. "And the other point I need to bring up- let’s not forget that on Ordos it was not entirely a population of magic haters. A great number of people on Ordos are native Ordosians who see the Colorfolk as friends, they are just as numerous or even more numerous than the settled outsiders; don't you think we'd have numerous defenders speaking on our behalf? Maybe they could have swayed the populace at large, since after all the actual group of religious figures who stood to gain from wiping out the Colorfolk were few and could easily be overwhelmed" he said. "In conclusion, there is no logical bridge than connects the motive of anti-magic sentiment to the action of shattering the prism”
"All fair things to consider. Now about the replacement..." The Writer began.
"Actually, I need to break down the other flawed premise first." Man In Black began, "Saying that the motive was to destroy the magic pools of Ordos is also a flawed premise. Sure, this is some time after the Colorfolk held off the last great invasion of the island, but let's not forget that by this time the magic world is in ruins; Ordos is the last holdout as far as an organized magic settlement; the rest of the magic world is almost certainly reduced to isolated encampments and individuals struggling to survive. There are no large scale forces organizing to invade Ordos, whatever fragments of the magic world that do exist are now in survival mode, they don't have time to procure boats and sail to a far off island to try and control a magic pool. Therefore, destroying the pools so outsiders can not take advantage of them is moot. Now the other side of the coin- destroying the pools of magic so the normal world cannot benefit from them doesn't make sense either, because normal people can't use the pools of magic since they don't have magic affinities to begin with. In short- either way you slice it, there's no clear path from wanting to destroy the pools of magic to shattering the prism either; the logic just isn't there" he finished.
"I came up with both scenarios and it took me years to realize how flawed both premises were; no matter how you look at it, there are no conditions that would lead to the Colorfolk wanting to shatter the source of their powers; it just doesn't add up" Frank concluded.
"So what would replace the shattering then? The "hiding" or something?" The Writer asked
"Actually, I am calling it "the scattering" you see; and the civil war is replaced with something far more in line with the Colorfolk's established role as magic world defenders and keepers of knowledge. Instead of pointlessly fighting each other and getting nowhere for centuries, the now clandestine faction of Colorfolk vow that this is not the end of the magic world, and do the only thing they can do. They set out to other now former magic sites and homes of now gone factions with one goal in mind: to save their texts and preserve their knowledge so that the legacy of magic may one day be reborn. In keeping with their role, the Great Hall of Ordos almost becomes a new Library of Alexandria, you could say. As the colorfolk scatter across the world to save magic knowledge so that one day, a new magic world can rise again" Frank explained.
"How would they even know where to go?" The Writer asked.
"Remember that map in the Great Hall that shows where all magic users are in the world? Tweaking it to also include magic locations makes this fall within the suspension of disbelief" Frank clarified.
"But how would the map even be formed to begin with? In retrospect that's pretty important in an era before GPS" The Writer pointed out.
"It was probably a gift from The Spirit, in keeping with the whole theme of the Colorfolk being gifted knowledge that was previously unknown to the magic world" Frank said. "But more importantly thank you for inspiring a story idea now" he added.
"In conclusion" Man In Blue said, "neither of the proposed ideas for what kickstarts the shattering, and by extension the war of the shards, make sense in the context of the world's internal logic; and without a clear reason for why the colorfolk would even consider shattering the prism, it would never happen, and therefore the war of the shards would never happen. The scattering is a more narratively consistent follow up to the golden age of the colorfolk ending, more in line with their role; in a symbolic sense they continue their role of protecting the magic world by ensuring its legacy is not lost, and as keepers of knowledge... well, self explanatory, isn't it?" he said.
"Just as a point of clarity- what is meant by defenders of the magic world?" The Writer asked.
"It's an honorary title. Remember- what the Magic Underground is in the present, is what Ordos was all those centuries ago. The Colorfolk's valiant and repeated defenses against those that sought the power of Ordos' pools of magic for selfish gain earned them that title. As Ordos was considered the center of the Magic World, the magic world at large honored the faction by nicknaming them "Defenders of the Magic World" for allowing Ordos to thrive; for even when things looked dark and bleak... they were never able to snuff out the light of the prism" Man In Blue clarified.
The Writer thought about everything the trio had brought up until now; "You're making a lot of good points so far; and at this point I do feel inclined to agree- the War of the Shards is in fact a detriment to the canon. I can see why you want to replace it Frank" The Writer nodded.
"Thank you, your honor. This is not something I just decided on a whim; it is something that I have spent a long time thinking about and this was the conclusion I came to after much thought" Frank explained
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Post by TGC on Dec 14, 2023 22:22:07 GMT -5
"Not so fast!" The door to the courtroom slams open, and TGC steps through. "What kind of a trial is this, the prosecution gets to start before the defense even arrives? For shame, I know we're not the best at writing courtroom scenes, but surely you can do better than this, writer." TGC said, power walking to the defense stand. "Um... I..." The writer stammers. Frank interjected, "Sorry, I was just going with what the judge was saying, I didn't really..." "No, no, it's fine, not your fault. Actually, I guess it's kinda fair, given that I'm gonna be kinda double teaming you." "What?" Crashing through the roof of the courtroom comes Toz76, hitting a superhero landing next to TGC.
"Heh... Nailed it. Yeah, that's right fuckos, I'm here too to provide my amazing insights and... TGC, why are you staring at me? You said I could pick whatever music I wanted."
"Yeah, lesson learned..." TGC muttered. "Anyways, yeah, we're gonna be double teaming our response to your critiques of the War of the Shards, and explaining why it's actually the most important arc in any hypothetical 3WSR adaptation."
"The most important?" The writer said. "Those are bold words, especially considering the middling state of both main attempts at the storyline."
"That is true. Both the wiki forum and 4WSR versions of the War of the Shards are riddled with flaws, however we hope to prove that those flaws are not inherent to the premise, and that if done right it can establish the universe and the Colorfolk in an excellent way that no other arc we've seen presented so far could." Toz responded.
"Well said." TGC said. "With that out of the way, I suppose we should get into..."
CHAPTER 1: INSERT CHAPTER NAME HERE idk what toz is gonna have the first chapter be i can edit this later
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Post by Toz76 on Dec 14, 2023 22:56:59 GMT -5
CHAPTER ONE: WHY THE WAR OF THE SHARDS IS ACTUALLY A GREAT START TO THE STORY
"Now, the court has been presented with good arguments for how the War of the Shards has failed in the past, and we don't deny those claims. Both versions of the War of the Shards that we have written were not very good. But the premise is not the reason for their failures." TGC said.
"Well, if it's not the premise that's the issue, why did they both still fall flat?"
"Well, that's pretty simple, really," Toz said. "The first one fell flat because it was a silly story arc we wrote years ago. We didn't have lore, we were just having fun, and we liked it that way. The Man In Black was a one-dimensional villain, but that was okay, because we weren't trying to write anything super deep."
"What about 4WSR? That fell apart super fast!" The Man In Blue objected.
"Correct!" Toz said. "Because everyone had a different idea of how the story should go! Some people wanted it to go longer, some wanted it to end quickly. Some wanted there to be more third parties involved, others thought it should be purely colorfolk. The problem was not with the idea, but with each writer's differing desires and preferences."
"Keep that idea in mind, by the way," TGC said. "Different writers have different preferences, desires, and interpretations, and that's usually fine, but later on we'll get into areas where these differences cause much bigger issues."
"Okay, fair enough," the judge said, still wary (he wanted to be home for dinner, and was getting the worrying sense that this trial would run long). "But the fact remains that there's still no good version of the war of the shards."
"Not yet!" Toz said. "But I'm writing it! You're all probably sick of hearing me talk about TozWSR-"
"Extremely!" Someone yelled.
"No one cares about it!" Someone else yelled.
"Ahem," Toz cleared her throat. "But TozWSR is a retelling of the war of the shards, and I believe it works because it takes advantage of the good ideas that the war of the shards has and jettisons the baggage."
"And what are those good ideas?" Man In Black asked. "We've pretty thoroughly proved that the War of the Shards doesn't work."
"Quite the contrary! The War of the Shards is a perfect start to the story." TGC said.
"Point 1.1: The War of the Shards introduces the colorfolk. We learn about their history, their values, and their goals, and this information isn't just exposition, it's given relevance to the plot and characters because the War of the Shards puts their legacy and future in jeopardy."
"Point 1.2: The War of the Shards starts the colorfolk out as underdogs. Everyone loves an underdog story, and the Colorfolk start out as the ruins of a once-great faction, fighting amongst themselves for shards (heh) of their former glory. This makes them unifying and becoming a force for good feel like a triumph rather than an inevitability, and when the Colorfolk go on to face far more powerful foes like Vados or the Horned One, it feels like a legitimate progression. The underdogs have grown and changed, and we were with them from the start."
"Point 1.3: The War of the Shards is a great start to Daniel's arc specifically. In 4WSR, Daniel is a new recruit who didn't know about the colorfolk until recently. He is forced to choose a side and fight for that side, and eventually rises up to become the leader and unify both sides. This is a classic Hero's Journey, and it makes the audience root for Daniel. And it's personal! The people he's fighting are people who want him on their side, who know about aspects of his father's life that he never knew. This makes the villains have an immediate connection to Daniel and gives us a reason to care, and it makes later arcs where he works alongside his former foes a bit more interesting."
"Point 1.4: The War of the Shards keeps the scale small. There's no need for extra characters like VEC or SOM, it's all just colorfolk. This establishes our core cast early and gives them moments to shine, so that when the stakes get higher and the cast gets bigger later on, we still have a solid base with these central characters."
"Point 1.5: The War of the Shards can be as silly as you want! There's 25 shards, which means up to 25 chances to put one somewhere silly and have a lighthearted chapter about the two factions fighting for that shard."
The Judge nodded. "I see where you're coming from with this, but you're not really addressing Frank's criticisms. What about the fact that Man In Black is a one-dimensional villain?"
"Yeah, what about me?" Man In Black said.
"Excellent question," TGC said. "Let me answer it with a question of my own: who said he had to be?"
"In TozWSR-" a loud grown briefly interrupted Toz, "I knew that making Man In Black interesting was the biggest hurdle to overcome. So my solution was to make the ideological conflicts between the two sides more obvious. The "good faction" wants to restore the colorfolk to their former place as protectors of Ordos and attempt to return to their golden age, whereas the Man In Black wants to use the Prism to give the colorfolk power and remove all limits placed on them. This marks a clear difference between what the two want, with the Man In Black as the clear badguy because he seems to want a new hierarchy of power with himself at the top. Now, it doesn't have to be as complex as that. Order and chaos, knowledge and ignorance, you can have whatever ideological conflict you want between the two sides. But all you really need to fix the war of the shards is to decide two things: what does Man In Black want, and how is that different from what Daniel wants?"
"This makes sense, that sounds like it would lead to a better-written story," the judge conceded. "But what about the fact that it's literally impossible for Man In Black to triumph? What about the lore?
"Oh, we're gonna need a whole separate post to tackle the lore," Toz said. "But to conclude this part of our argument: from a storytelling and character perspective, the War of the Shards provides everything you need for a great introduction to the world of the colorfolk."
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Feb 13, 2024 18:51:38 GMT -5
"Ahem, your honor, may we have a brief recess?" TGC asked.
"Very well" The Writer said as the five adjourned to an area off to the side. A few minutes later, Frank and his team returned to his table, and TGC and Toz to theirs.
"Your Honor, in light of some things being brought to my attention... I hereby motion for a mistrial. Some things were brought to my attention, and to be fair, we will need to start over" Frank explained.
"Most unorthodox... but very well, I hereby strike the record clean and will allow this to reset" The Writer said as he struck the gavel.
Frank stood with Man in Blue and Man In Black at his side. Toz and TGC stood is across from them. This time, things would go differently
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Feb 13, 2024 19:31:35 GMT -5
Man In Gold, acting as stenographer, confirmed that the record had been wiped clean, then Frank proceeded to begin a second time. "Your honor, I apologize for beginning this without the defense showing up... but for all intents and purposes I genuinely thought the defendant was an abstract concept, and how does an abstract concept defend itself?" Frank asked genuinely. "Fair enough, now before we get into the facts of the war, I think we need to answer 2 questions" The Writer began. "First- Frank, why are you so adamant that Prism Magic be incompatible with evil? That appears to be the core of your argument with why there shouldn't be evil colormen. And second- is the War of the Shards truly a good starting point?" The Writer said. "Your Honor, while in the past I have said that I have tried at times to avoid common tropes and try to go in unique directions, other tropes I have felt the need to embrace as a matter of being obligatory. In this case, I am referring to the trope known as "Only the Chosen May Wield" as per TV tropes" Frank explained. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OnlyTheChosenMayWield"As you can see" Man In Blue began, "The idea of an Item only being usable by worthy parties, in this case, those of good heart, is nothing new. It is a trope that is very much as old as literature itself. Look at King Arthur, who was king because he pulled the Sword from the Stone. Or Thor, the Norse God of Thunder, and hammer Mjolnir. This hammer and sword are arguably the most famous examples of this trope, and they aren't seen as problematic- they are celebrated as being among the most iconic weapons in mythology" Man In Blue explained. "But it plays into the bigger point here" Man In Black continued. "These tools, weapons and artifacts aren't "unwieldable to the unworthy" for arbitrary reasons. Quite often, this trope is used to showcase how important something or someone is. Take the sword in the stone for example. The fact that no one but Arthur was able to pull it from the anvil it rested in was meant to show how important Arthur was to the people of England- it was the sign that he was the one who was destined to be their king, because he pulled off what was long seen as impossible" he finished. "But how does that premise relate to the Prism and Colorfolk?" The Writer asked. "Great question your honor" Frank replied. "I've always liked the premise of this trope; about how individuals can only gain access to certain power or items by being worthy of them. Applying this time-tested Formula my intention was to showcase the important of the Prism, and by extension the Spirit and the Colorfolk, in the context of their fictional world" Frank explained. "By making the Prism only accessible to the good hearted, we establish how important the Prism is; the whole point is that the Prism goes on to become an Iconic symbol of the Magic world, and the Colorfolk are seen as a "big deal" in the Magic World. After all, we have established that the Colorfolk are celebrated as the "Sworn Protectors of the Magic World" in honor of their repeated, resilient defense of Ordos, the center of the Magic World... so does it not make sense to allow the Prism to be only useable by the good in order to establish importance?" Man In Black asked. "If the Prism were capable of being used by anybody without restriction, that cheapens and trivializes it to the point where I, as a reader, would interpret that as "Oh, the Prism is just another artifact in this world" which is what I DON'T want. No, the Prism must be seen as important; I have always intended to establish it as being among the top ten most important artifacts in the magic world. In conclusion your honor, for the same reason the Sword in the Stone was seen as important because it established how King Arthur was worthy of his position, we cannot have evil colorfolk, and by extension, evil anything colorfolk related, because having Prism magic be wieldable only by the worthy, i.e. good hearted, establishes how important the colorfolk are, since after all, only the worthy can wield its power" "I see; so it took you this long to articulate the reasoning?" The Writer asked. "It was always hard until now to find a suitable point of comparison to clear things up" Frank nodded. "As for your next question" Man In Black said, "We argue that starting in the War of the Shards is a terrible starting point. Starting with the Civil War creates confusion, not tension. Why are these parties fighting? What are the stakes? If we need to start anywhere, we need to start from the beginning, in the Golden era of the Colorfolk" he continued. "Your honor, starting in the first era allows us to see the Colorfolk become the heroes that we keep referring to them as. We see their successes and triumphs, the struggles they face and the problems they encounter. Let's say for the sake of argument we kept the war of the shards. If we don't have this critical set up, then the civil war feels empty and meaningless, and not even exposition monologues by key characters can save that" Frank explained. "That's a bold statement, can you prove that?" The Writer asked. "Indeed I can" Frank said, "I call my first character witnesses!" Frank exclaimed. One came walking in from the distance, he looked like Chris Evans and was holding a shield with a star on it. The other looked like Henry Cavill and had an "S" emblem on his chest. "Your honor, I will let Captain America and Superman take it from here" Frank said as he gestured to them. "Let us take you back to 2016, with a tale of two movies, with virtually similar premises" Captain America began. "One from Marvel, and one from DC" Superman continued. "The Marvel Movie was the culmination of more than five years, and 6 or 7 movies, where we had spent so long building up the relationship between our characters, we see why the civil war broke out. We feel the impact and significance of the struggle and we are invested in it" Captain America explained. "Whereas the DC movie started with the Civil War, and with no buildup to the fight at all, audiences didn't buy it. They just weren't interested or invested. Hell, the only good thing to come out of the movie was one of the supporting characters" Superman explained. "Surely this is a matter of preference" The Writer pointed out. "The numbers don't lie: Captain America- Civil War has a 91 percent rating on Rotten Tomatoes and grossed over 1.15 billion dollars" Captain America explained. "Whereas Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice has a 29% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and grossed 874 million" Superman added. "But Hindsight is 20/20; its pretty easy to look back on things from years ago and draw conclusions like that" The Writer explained. "Actually your honor" Frank pointed out, "as you can see from this 2016 skit, this was pretty much the consensus *at the time* the movies came out" Frank explained "Ah... I see" The Writer said, then turning to Toz and TGC. "All right, I guess we'll turn to you two now. Same question- your thoughts on the matters of starting with the civil war, which you alluded to previously as being a good thing, and should evil colorfolk be allowed to exist" he said, as Toz and TGC conferred among themselves
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Post by Toz76 on Feb 13, 2024 21:18:39 GMT -5
"Interesting points raised by the prosecution," Toz said, rising to her feet. "First things first, I think we should discuss that trope, and why it doesn't apply to the Prism."
"Go on," the judge said, intrigued.
"I argue that the Prism is not an example of "Only The Chosen May Wield", and is in fact better understood as a power source or power amplifier. The examples given, of Thor and King Arthur, are compelling, but there's a couple crucial missing pieces. First of all, Mjolnir and Excalibur are not the source of their powers. They may grant additional powers depending on the version, but in actuality, King Arthur's worthiness comes from his ancestry as the son of Uther Pendragon, and Thor is a god. The artifacts may have proved their worthiness, but they aren't the source of that worthiness. Secondly, these are weapons that empower a single individual. The difference between these and the prism is pretty straightforward. The Prism empowers an entire group of people, and no one wields the prism in combat."
"That's semantics, isn't it?" Man In Blue said.
"I'm not done. You see, I further maintain that applying that trope to the Prism would be redundant... because that trope already applies to the colorfolk artifacts!"
I can't actually remember if there was a jury, but if there was one, they gasped. If there wasn't one, a jury manifested just long enough to gasp, and then immediately vanished into pataphysical nothingness.
"Even when the Prism was reassembled, the Colorfolk didn't get access to artifacts like the Blade of Erdagovern or the Hammer of Hikos right away. They had to prove their worthiness to gain those weapons. The Prism only provided them with the power boost to use magic more effectively. But the artifacts were made by the ancient colorfolk to specifically empower their heirs, and only those that they would have deemed worthy can use the artifacts to their full potential."
"That's a decent point," Man In Blue admitted. "But how do you respond to the criticism that this cheapens the Prism?"
"The Prism isn't what makes the colorfolk special," Toz said. "The power was inside them all along."
The jury booed. If there is no jury, they remanifested long enough to boo. You get it.
"Okay, that was glib, but seriously. I've never believed that the prism has any inherent will to it. The reason the Colorfolk were a force for good for so long was because they were led by good people. Matthew Erdagovern was a good man, and when the Spirit of the Prism gave him powers, he used his powers for good. The Prism is an incredibly powerful source of magic, and the Colorfolk used its power to do incredible things, but ultimately the Colorfolk are remembered and revered because they were great, not because the Prism was great."
"But if that's the case, why have the prism be fixed at all?" Man In Blue asked. "If the thematic idea is that the colorfolk are good because of the people and not the artifact, wouldn't the thematically appropriate conclusion be that the colorfolk can exist without the prism?"
"Great point!" Toz said. "I'm genuinely excited that you thought of that, Man In Blue."
"Well, my dialogue is being written by you, so... you're welcome?"
Toz ignored Man In Blue's fourth wall break. "This is exactly why I like the War of the Shards. It's a story about redemption. To me, the Prism is essentially a MacGuffin. Whoever puts it back together determines what its power will be used for. If a bad person puts it back together, it will be used for evil. If a good person puts it back together, it will be used for good. This is way more interesting than having the Prism be incompatible with evil, because it means that there are actual stakes. Man In Black can actually win, and that victory would have real consequences. Of course the War of the Shards makes no sense if Man In Black can't win, so just get rid of the lore that says he can't!"
"But the story could still end with the prism staying shattered?" Man In Blue said.
"I don't view the War of the Shards as the full story, I view it as the first chapter. Having the first chapter end with the Prism newly reassembled means that the characters can gain new powers from the Prism over time as it regains its former strength, meaning the characters are always getting more powerful and the stakes can grow over time naturally. Sure, you could leave it shattered, and that would be a narratively and thematically satisfying conclusion, but I think the arc of the Colorfolk in the 21st century is about redemption, about fixing their mistakes and regaining their old glory, and the first step of that is rebuilding the prism."
"I guess," Man In Blue said. "But what about the Spirit?"
Toz sighed. "I honestly regret introducing the Spirit. I just wanted a way to keep Bachmann Edward in the story after his sacrifice, so I said that his shard contained the Spirit that powered the Prism. I don't mind the idea of the Prism having an intelligence, but I don't want it to be tied so closely to human morality. This is just my opinion, but I think it makes the story more interesting if the Colorfolk have freedom to choose to do bad things rather than being led by this unerring magical spirit."
"Interesting," Man In Blue said. "I can tell Frank and TGC both want to speak, so can you say some concluding thoughts really quick?"
"Of course," Toz said. "Judge, and maybe also jury, stories are about characters. Lore is fun, and interesting, and engaging, but if it gets in the way of the story and the characters, there's no shame in cutting or changing it. The War of the Shards is a story about Daniel inheriting his ancestor's legacy and fighting to right the wrong of the shattering before someone else sends the faction down a darker path. I've never liked the Prism being incontrovertibly good, much like I always disliked the morality check back in the day, because I feel that they deny characters agency by removing their ability to make mistakes. And I think the War of the Shards does a great job of giving its characters agency, because their choices determine whether the Colorfolk can regain their glory or whether they fall to evil. Thank you for your time."
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Post by TGC on Feb 13, 2024 23:08:56 GMT -5
TGC rises from his chair. "Alright, okay, first off, getting the absolute nerd shit out of the way, your superhero movie analogies are flawed at best. One of the big plot points of Batman v Superman that ends up partially resolving the main conflict is that both of their mothers were named Martha. The biggest issue with this movie isn't that there wasn't 12 movies and 11 seasons of TV before it, it was that it simply wasn't well written. Additional sidenote, you left out the audience scores, and since whether the critic or audience score is the one that actually matters is entirely dependent on what narrative one wants to push, simply posting both scores is generally the best option. They were 90/89 and 29/63 for the record, but whatever."
"Does any of this have a point?" The judge asked.
"That first paragraph? Nah, not really. I'll start my actual point by calling my own character witness."
A blonde man wearing an all black outfit, with Chanel boots and one black glove walked up to the stand.
"Your honor, Luke Skywalker." TGC said. "Back in 1977, the first Star Wars movie released, with this man right here as its protagonist. Initially, George Lucas envisioned a protagonist more similar to Obi-Wan, a Jedi in exile going out of retirement to fight the Empire, but in the end he decided to have a more relatable character, one without much knowledge of the Jedi, and one who isn't entirely sure of what his place is meant to be."
"He's right on that, I was thrust into a conflict I knew basically nothing about, after learning that my father wasn't who I was told he was. I thought he was a mundane man with a fairly standard job, but it turned out he was a magical warrior from a time gone by." Luke said. "The stories that Obi-Wan told me painted a clear path forward, that I would become a Jedi and defeat Darth Vader."
"In the Original Trilogy, we only hear of the Clone Wars and the Jedi Purge through the recollection of other characters, we don't even get an actual flashback, only verbal accounts. In A New Hope, those accounts come only from Obi-Wan." TGC said.
"But when I fought Darth Vader on Bespin, I was given a major shock when Vader revealed to me that Obi-Wan lied when he told me that Vader killed my father, and that in actuality he was my father." Luke continued.
"This completely changed the shape of the story from there on out, what was before a fairly open and shut story with a clear path forward, now was placed in a grey area, where Luke didn't know what he should make of this information. When we see him at the start of Return of the Jedi, his formerly very bright outfit was replaced with an all black outfit, and his first scene of the movie featured him choking out Jabba's guards, just like Vader's signature move." TGC elaborated.
"So wait, if his black clothes were symbolic of his inner turmoil, then why is he still wearing them now?" The Writer asked.
"Black brings out the green of my saber." Luke explained. "and these boots were expensive."
"For the entirety of Return of the Jedi, Luke is constantly being told by others what his destiny is, and what he should do. Vader wants Luke to join him on the dark side of the force, Obi-Wan and Yoda are adamant that Luke needs to kill Vader, and at the end the Emperor also wants Luke to kill Vader and join him at his side." TGC continued. "Even in the face of a clear evil in the form of the Emperor, the path forward still isn't fully clear to Luke, as he comes into conflict with his mentors due to their earlier lying to him and their disagreement on if Vader can be redeemed."
"In the end, I didn't listen to any of them. I laid down my weapon in front of the Emperor, adamant that I would never join the dark side, and never kill my own father. I almost died for it, too. In the end, however, I was right to think that my father, Anakin Skywalker, was not gone, and he saved my life." Luke continued. "In the face of a conflict older than myself, I took a look at the sides, and decided that even the good side made up of morally righteous people was wrong about what I should do as a Jedi."
"In the end, the story of the Original Trilogy wasn't about the events of the Galactic Civil War, it was about Luke finding his place in the galaxy, his mind unpoisoned by years of assumption of what should be done." TGC explained.
"and after the war ended, I became the Grand Master of my own Jedi Order, examined the flaws of the old doctrines that allowed for Anakin Skywalker to fall to the dark side, and created a new code that learned from the mistakes of the past. I have taken a very different approach to being the leader of the Jedi than master Yoda did." Luke continued.
"Oh, fuck yeah, this is EU Luke!" A member of the jury exclaimed.
"Order, order!" The writer yelled, pounding his gavel. "While that was a very elegant explanation of the thematic undertones of Star Wars, I fail to see how it has relevance to 3WSR."
"Really? Aren't the parallels obvious?" TGC asked. "When comparing Star Wars to our second attempt at the War of the Shards, both feature a protagonist who initially knew not of what power lied within him, thrust into a war he has little context for, and is told what he's meant to be and do. In the middle, his mentor ends up being revealed as somewhat of an unreliable narrator, and everything he was told is put into question. And at the end, he has to go alone into the nest of evil, the odds stacked against him, and through his own judgement cast a new future for himself and the doctrine he follows."
"I think I'm starting to understand what you're saying." The writer said. "But what of the Prequel Trilogy?"
"I'm so glad you asked." TGC said. "What Frank is suggesting is that for Star Wars to have been a compelling story, they would have had to start with the story of Anakin Skywalker first, but if the 93/96, 95/97, and 83/94 Rotten Tomatoes scores of the Original Trilogy are any indication, there was no issue with starting Star Wars with the end of the Galactic Civil War, and in fact doing so allowed for one of the greatest plot twists in cinematic history. In the context of someone leaving the movie theater in 1983 after watching Return of the Jedi, all the stuff in the past about the clone wars and the fall of the republic is just history, the background to the actual story of Luke Skywalker. The historical events we hear about exist primarily to serve his story."
"and the parallel to 3WSR here would be...?"
"The Prequel Trilogy would be the years around the shattering. Both stories feature the main faction in a state of decline, and end with a devastating blow that forces the remaining members into exile." TGC explained.
"I don't see why that would be such a bad story to tell on it's own, though."
"Truth be told, I don't think it is. The issue with most prequel stories is maintaining a sense of stakes, it's very difficult to make a story set in the past feel like it matters when we know everything is going to be okay in the end." TGC said. "But with the Prequel Trilogy and the War of the Shards, since they're both set at the precipice of a dark era, the fact that we know approximately what is going to happen serves to enhance the story instead of detracting from it, we are able to see evil gain power and eventually win out over good, for a time."
"There's a lot of potential in that story, I think." The writer said.
"Yes, I agree." TGC said. "However, I disagree with the idea that the golden age of the Colorfolk is an era ripe with story potential in terms of actual full threads. If the shattering is the prequel trilogy, then the golden age is the thousand year timeframe before the movies and after the end of the Old Republic era where the Sith were gone. The Jedi never faced any real threats in that time frame, and were never in any actual danger of annihilation, which is why for a long time the stories set in that timeframe were far and few between, the few that were made being focused more on characters than events. These days, Lucasfilm has created stories set in that timeframe, called the High Republic era, and the lack of success of those stories really proves my point. In essence, my point is that the golden age of the Colorfolk is History, not Story."
"Hmm. I've never thought about it like that." The writer concluded. Well, if that's the end of your post, then I suppose I'll pass the right-to-next-post back to Toz, so she can either elaborate on your points with her own thoughts or just pass it to Frank."
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Mar 2, 2024 20:51:04 GMT -5
Toz didn't have anything to add so it went back to Frank
"I feel TGC made some good points, but I respectfully disagree with his assessment of 3WSR lore. And I should know first hand because I have given much thought over the years. I didn't want to bring this up because it felt too much like a personal opinion and wasn't relevant to this discussion, but I guess I'll bring it up since its relevant at this point. Your Honor, let me ask you this- what is the most important thing a writer needs for a story?" Frank began.
"An idea, I would imagine; or perhaps technique and skill" The Writer replied.
"Very close, Your Honor. In fact, it is inspiration. Inspiration is the source of ideas, and technique is useless if you don't have inspiration for an idea to channel that technique into. And when it comes to 3WSR, if you look at all the work I have done over the years, you will notice a certain pattern" Frank indicated. "When it came to building the world of 3WSR, I had lots of ideas for the golden age of the Colorfolk, a good number of ideas for after the war ended, but the war itself... practically nothing" Frank revealed
The jury briefly manifested for an audible gasp before disappearing again. Frank then continued "It's true, when I look back at my work on 3WSR, I have accomplished virtually nothing with the War of the Shards. I think if you were to reread 4WSR, you will find that less than 5 percent of my posts in that thread were related to that plot; the vast majority either world built or focused on different things. And when I did focus on the war, it always went towards the end goal of having all shards in the hands of the Blue Faction. Do you know why this is?" Frank asked.
"I can only imagine" The Writer replied.
"I had no ideas, plain and simple. Your Honor, this may surprise a lot of people, but the War of the Shards just doesn't give me any inspiration, I have no ideas for it. If you go back and look at my work, you will only find one real idea I have developed that directly relates to what happened in the Dark Era after the shattering. I wrote of how Ordos the island "punished" those who lived on her who had persecuted the Colorfolk by "rejecting" them; how after the Prism was shattered, the island experienced famines and other calamities, culminating in a massive, hurricane like storm hitting the island and destroying the Church of St. Arthur's Bridge; the event was seen as highly symbolic, and resulted in a mass Exodus of non-native Ordosians from the island. This is of course a vast oversimplification for the sake of time, but that was the only real, war-related idea I had during this era; what few other ideas I had during this time concerned concurrent even unrelated to the arc. But otherwise, for me, The War of the Shards is an unwritable concept; one that I regret making an official part of the lore. Of all the ideas I have come up with that relate to the Colorfolk, I consider this my worst idea for the simple reason that it doesn't inspire me. While I can't quite remember if between me and Toz who was the first to "codify" the War of the Shards, I do know I was the first to make it officially part of established canon, I move I now regret and wish to fix." Frank finished.
"How do you want to fix it?" The Writer asked.
"That is still a work in progress, but for now I can say this- After our experiments with long form, open ended stories, its clear that they reach a point where they become unsustainable. So if 3WSR is to work going forward, they need a more structured, episodic format. Similar to our sitcom, 3WSR works should be a series of contained narratives, all intertwined to a main canon. That's the approach I intend for the stories I have in mind" Frank explained.
"Can you give examples of stories you have in mind for the golden era" The Writer asked.
"The part that wasn't taken into consideration is that each story explores different premises and themes; 3 examples come to mind:
The Masteri War- The Colorfolk's war on the masters of Golems. While the Colorfolk have some early struggles by the second half they easily defeat the Masteri in conflict not because they are stronger, but because they take advantage of the Masteri's arrogance. The Masteri lose because they are too arrogant to see their faults, to learn from their mistakes, to rectify their weaknesses, etc. While this story contains plenty of action with the Colorfolk fights against the Masteri, ultimately it is the exploration of this theme that takes focus; how arrogance is the downfall of man. The final, disastrous defeat of the Masteri is, in a sense, a result of their own undoing
The Orc War- After many conversations with Toz on this aspect of the mythos, what I ultimately want to explore with this story is the idea of a war that nobody wants. The Orc War was ultimately started by the desire of fiercely anti-human Orc tribal chiefs; and while a couple of the tribes were all in on the wars, its clear others weren't. So as the conflict goes on, both sides fight, but it becomes steadily clear that neither side is actually fighting because they want to- the Orcs fight because of warrior's honor, and they see surrender as shameful. The colorfolk fight because the must defend Ordos... but its increasingly clear as time goes on that neither side wants this; they only fight out of their respective obligations. The end sees the Colorfolk victorious in name only; again, exploring the idea of what happens when two sides who don't want war find themselves in a position where they feel they have no choice but to fight. I can elaborate in another thread.
The Great Fire of 827- This one goes before even the colorfolk. Of all the villain archetypes that exist, one we haven't really explored is "Mother nature" as the villain. So this story is experimental in two ways- our first attempt at Mother Nature as a villain, and exploring the 3WSR world and Ordos pre-colorfolk
... in conclusion, I feel shorter, more contained stories will be easier to write than single, open ended stories that eventually reach critical mass" Frank explained.
"Anything else you want to say?" The Writer asked
"Unless Toz and TGC have anything they want to say before we move onto the next point, we're good to move on unless they want to say something in response to this" Man In Blue said as Man In Black nodded.
"Only this" Frank said as he spoke to TGC "I mean, your star wars analogies were interesting, but lets be honest- a lot of the material that you are referring to doesn't do as well as more mainstream stuff because once you move away from the iconic characters and locations of the franchise and venture into more uncharted territories, most audiences lose interest. Is it not true that there is a whole sect of star wars fans that only consider The Clone Wars cartoon and the original trilogy as "true" Star Wars? And let's be honest- if Captain Rex and Commander Cody weren't in the Rookies episode of the Clone Wars cartoon, as well as the scenes where Obi Wan and Anakin were in... chances are, nobody would bat an eye at that episode" Frank theorized.
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Post by TGC on Mar 2, 2024 22:05:37 GMT -5
"Ok... Where do I start..." TGC pondered. "First off, get ready for one massive dialog block.
While it is true that less people have watched or read a lot of the Star Wars mythos outside of the movies, a lot of that is moreso due to the mediums themselves rather than the actual content of the stories. After all, most fans of any pop culture franchise built on visual mediums are never going to venture over to written material such as books. In fact, George Lucas himself once said that he never read any of the official Star Wars books. (He did say however that he generally kept up to date with the comics.)
I will give you this one partially, as the High Republic era is currently comprised entirely of books and comics. (though a TV show called The Acolyte is releasing this year.) However, that really is not an excuse on the part of the era's lack of appeal. The Old Republic era started out with comics in the 90s, but really came into popularity with the Knights of the Old Republic duology of video games, which are far and away the most popular Star Wars video games, the KOTOR subreddit having over 135,000 subscribers. This game is set 4000 years before the events of the movies, and are effectively disconnected entirely from them.
At the same time, Star Wars as a franchise was carried entirely through books and comics throughout the 1990s, up until the release of The Phantom Menace. While many of these books have faded into obscurity, others such as Timothy Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy are still talked about to this day, introducing fan favorite characters such as Grand Admiral Thrawn and Mara Jade, the former of which was reintroduced in the new Disney continuity. The 90's era of Star Wars books culminated in the New Jedi Order series, and the first book of said series, Vector Prime, was on the New York Times bestseller list for four weeks after it released.
All in all, I say this mostly to point out that the failure of the High Republic era is not inherent to stories being told outside of the core parts of the Star Wars universe. Moving on to your next point, technically you are right, there are some people who only view movies 1-6 and TCW as canon, that's a very major oversimplification of a very awful discourse.
First, I'll talk about the actual official statements regarding canonicity in Star Wars, which somehow is going to take multiple paragraphs. There are two (kind of three, I'll get to it) continuities for Star Wars, "Canon", created after the Disney buyout, and "Legends", comprising of all extended universe material released before then. Henceforth I will be referring to the former as "Disney Canon" or "New Canon", and the latter as "Old Canon" or "The EU".
New canon is fairly simple. Everything released after the disney buyout, unless stated as explicitly non-canon, is a part of the Disney canon continuity, with no types of media having priority over others.
Old canon, however, had a system of canon tiers, with material in higher tiers being canon to and having priority over material in lower tiers. The tiers are as follows:
G Canon, or George Lucas canon, comprised only of episodes 1-6.
T Canon, or Television canon, comprised only of The Clone Wars, though it would also have included a live action TV show George Lucas was trying to get started after he finished the prequel trilogy.
These first two tiers are part of why I say there's kind of three different canons. George Lucas's own opinion was that only G canon, and potentially T canon depending on what time of day you asked him, were canon.
Under those two was C Canon, or Continuity Cannon. This tier comprised of the vast majority of Extended Universe material.
The final tier was S Canon, or Secondary Canon, which comprised of various books and comics released in the 70s and 80s that the EU writers of the 90s, 00s, and early 2010s didn't want to have to abide by.
So right off the bat, before even getting into fan reception, we have 2-5 different definitions of canon. When talking about how fans see things, I can only talk in broad strokes about perceived factions, so take everything I say from here on out with a grain of salt.
While there are people who generally abide by the rules of T canon, from what I have seen, it's rarely exclusively TCW alongside the movies. Usually they'll put a caveat in for "and whatever video games i played as a kid". Purists generally stick just to G canon, unless they hate the prequels and only consider the original trilogy to be canon.
There is also a significant portion of C canon practitioners who reject the T canon tier due to its contradictions with a lot of material in C canon, and thus consider only G canon and the parts of C canon that don't acknowledge T canon as a part of their personal continuity.
In general, there's a lot of subfactions of C canon. Some people dislike the books that followed up on New Jedi Order, coloquially referred to as the "Denningverse" after author Troy Denning, and some people dislike what The Old Republic MMO did to the story of the KOTOR games (me included) and thus don't consider it a part of their personal continuity. The EU is not a monolith.
That's not even getting started on people who like a mix of material from old and new canon. Several people who generally stick to Disney canon also consider various EU material canon, typically video games like KOTOR and Republic Commando, but also sometimes books like Darth Plagueis, which fans say improves The Phantom Menace in a similar way to how The Clone Wars improves Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith.
Then there's the sequel trilogy. Holy fuck, sequel trilogy discourse is a nightmare. You have people who reject it outright, people who only like episode 7, people who only like episodes 7 and 8, people who think episode 7 is mid but like episode 8 and hate episode 9, people who like episode 7, hate episode 8, and have a nuanced opinion of episode 9 and feel it did its best with what episode 8 left it with, and then there's the rare few who like all three. I find myself as a mix of the second and fifth options, if you were wondering.
What conclusion is there to be drawn from this? I don't know, man. I would say there's not that many people who strictly abide by both G and T canon, from what I've seen.
Moving on, you said that people likely would not care about the TCW Episode Rookies if not for the appearances of Cody and Rex. Where do I even get started on this?
First off, Captain Rex was never in the movies, he was also a creation of TCW, introduced in the same season as the episode in question, that being the first one. Anyone who's suddenly a fan of Captain Rex by the third episode of the series is probably willing to pack bond with whatever random clone troopers are faced in front of them. Commander Cody's role in Revenge of the Sith also takes up less than two minutes of screentime, and any real fans of him probably like him because of TCW too.
The thing I find really ironic about what you said about Rookies is that the two survivors of the squad of random clone troopers in question, codenamed Fives and Echo, both become mainstays on the show and are some of the most beloved clone troopers practically ever. Fives' death condemned Commander Fox to be hated by fans for the past decade, and Echo is still a main character in The Bad Batch, a show which just had its third season drop. Point being, Fives and Echo are clones that are talked about in the same sentences as Rex and Cody most of the time, which is part of why I found the insinuation that people only watched it for the latter two kinda funny.
Let's see... What am I forgetting... Oh right, the second quotation mark."
"Wow, didn't ask." said a member of the jury.
The writer ignored them. "...Is that all? Any input on anything other than the last paragraph of the post?"
"Nah, nothing in particular." TGC responded. "I'll pass it back to Toz."
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Post by Toz76 on Mar 3, 2024 21:48:33 GMT -5
"I don't actually have much to say here either. There's nothing to rebut. If Frank subjectively isn't inspired by the War of the Shards, that's fine. I am inspired by it, I think it's good for the canon, but it's very clear that the modern-day side of things doesn't interest Frank as much anymore. I could nitpick his story ideas for seeming kind of one-note and overly didactic (except maybe the orc one), but the execution could make those stories incredible too.
Fundamentally, though, I'm much less interested in the "golden era" because there's not a lot of conflict to explore. The colorfolk face no real threat, don't have to prove themselves or recover lost glory or even have any moral quandries. The Golden Era of the colorfolk doesn't seem like a particularly interesting setting for stories except insofar as those stories influence the "present day" of the canon, at least in my opinion. I like our extensive timelines and worldbuilding documents, and some of what is in there could make cool stories, but for the most part I only use the historical colorfolk to inform or parallel what the 21st century colorfolk are facing. Obviously, this is a subjective taste thing, but it's where I personally stand. The story should be set when the interesting things happen, and for me, that's the war of the shards.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Apr 28, 2024 9:29:43 GMT -5
"These are all very fair points, and I am willing to concede that my lack of inspiration is subjective, which it precisely why, your honor, that I motion it not be considered in your verdict, since if we are going to talk about the war of the shards, we must talk about the war itself, and not any personal deficiencies I may have with it" Frank explained.
"Motion approved; while I will allow you to state personal tastes as a matter of clarification where necessary, I agree they are not relevant to the discussion. This leads to my next question- Frank, given how fundamental a change this would be to Colorfolk lore, is there anything that exists within the context of 3WSR lore that requires the prism be incompatible with evil?" The writer asked.
"Indeed your honor. Now, in other discourse Toz and I have already discussed the artifacts and Sir Adrian, so I am willing to drop those arguments. However, I would like to indicate THREE points where we need the Prism to be incompatible with evil, and by extension, we can't have evil colorfolk and the war of the shards"
"Which are?" The writer asked.
"Point One- having the Prism be a "good" is the perfect demonstration of the Sixth Law of Magic" Frank brought up
"Please refresh the court's memory and explain" The writer said
"Magic itself possesses no morality, but can be influenced. In this case, we are using the Prism to demonstrate one of the weirder aspects of our mythos; how magics can be referred to as explicitly "good" or "evil" even if morality is a subjective premise based on numerous factors. Making the prism only accessible to the good hearted is meant to serve as an in narrative example of how the Sixth Law works. In this case, how magic as derived from the Prism is an example of magic that is good influenced, where as other magics can evil influenced, such as necromancy, and other magics are straight up neutral, like water magic"
"Can't you just create another example to demonstrate it?" The writer asked.
"I would rather not create too many arbitrary examples in lore that exist solely to be demonstrations of how the law works. At least having the Prism the way it is serves as a plot relevant demonstration of the sixth law. I already created an arbitrary example to explain the third law and I would rather not do that too often"
"Wait a minute; why are the Eight laws of magic even a thing?" Toz asked
"To answer that, I point to this post I made in 2018 where I broke down the narrative reasons for their existence:
Didn't know where else to put this, but I did want to clarify, from a narrative perspective, the why the eight laws exist:
First Law of Magic: One's ability to use magic is not dependent on strength of one's body, but strength of one's mind
How come the iconic image of the mage is an older man of great wisdom, with long white hair and a beard, and advanced in age? Because the ability to use magic is based on the strength of one's mind, and quite possibly soul. Sure, a strong body is healthy and all, but the great mages are effective because of the knowledge they posses, not the muscle in their body
Second Law of Magic: Magic can neither be created nor destroyed; it can only be harnessed or blocked
Magic is treated like energy to explain a rather simple premise: why people "run out" of magic in the first place. Sure, it exists freely in the universe around us, but it also needs to be harnessed before it can be used. Therefore, I imagine that one affinity for magic allows it to pool up over time, it is expended when a spell is cast, and then subsequently dissipates back into the environment, allowing the cycle to repeat
Third Law of Magic: Magic is learned, not inherited
Basically- in theory ANYONE can learn magic if they have the aptitude and talent for it. Just because one is born from a powerful mage and powerful sorceress does not guarantee you'll be a powerful mage... magic is simply not linked to genetics.
Fourth Law of Magic: Magic can heal, but it cannot cure
Curing disease is not a simple as waving a wand and making it disappear. Magic cannot cure a disease in the sense that one cannot simply pour healing magic into a body and expect it to recover. What magic is capable of though, is alleviating physical symptoms. In theory, a mage who has a mastery of bacteriology/virology and understanding of how they interact with the human body could cast a spell in such a way to eliminate the foreign microbes and shorten the length of time one is sick for, but magic cannot outright cure a disease... especially terminal illness. (Magic can, however, alleviate suffering)
In short- there is a reason why even magic could not stop the great plagues, like the Black Death or Spanish Flu.
Fifth Law of Magic: Magic can restore life, but it cannot create or return life
Why do all-powerful mages, some of whom even perceived as God-like, never return from the dead and just keep living? Simple- magic can heal a body and in theory keep it "well-maintained" with some artifacts capable of granting a form of immortality (see entry on the subject), eventually nature must run it's course; a body does eventually break down and does eventually die, and a soul, once it has moved on, cannot return from the afterlife. From a narrative perspective, this means Death actually has impact and, while occasionally one may reappear as a ghost for whatever reason, they cannot permanently return to life.
Sixth Law of Magic: Magic itself possesses no morality, but can be influenced
Ties into that clarification I did on why morality in magic is treated so objectively, and explain why there are such things as artifacts that can only be used by those who are good or evil
Seventh Law of Magic: Magic is limited by the knowledge of the user
It's simple logic, really- if a mage doesn't know a spell that will enable him to do X, then he cannot do X
Eighth Law of Magic: It is impossible to completely master magic
It takes a lifetime to learn and master one discipline of magic, let alone several. This serves as our narrative explanation for why most mages only specialize in a single kind of magic, and why all powerful, multi-elemental mages do not exist
"In short Your honor, the purpose of the eight laws is to establish the absolute limitations of magic and build the foundation of the world's internal logic. As we saw in the original canon, without an established internal logic, the world falls apart and the story breaks down" Frank finished
"Ok, can we move onto the next point?" The Writer asked
"Point Two- Allowing evil colorfolk to exist throws away the deeper meanings that Frank have been trying to implement" Man In Blue stated
"What deeper meanings? Why didn't you bring you what they were?" TGC asked directly
"I take full responsibility over the fact that I did not bring them up at the time; that was a complete mistake on my part. But for the record your honor, I do want it to be known that since then, I have, in fact, discussed the deeper meanings of the Colorfolk in the past in preparation for what I hoped was future work on them. If you look through the discord channel, you will notice that I have brought up discussion on the deeper meanings twice in 2023, and in 2021 I explicitly stated that I give my writing deeper meaning because its how I compensate for one of the biggest flaws of my writing, if not two flaws"
"Flaws?" The Writer said with a raised eyebrow
Frank sighed before admitting, "my writing is very dry, and I admit that my character writing isn't the best. I am someone who "picks a personality and sticks with it" because at a fundamental level, my focus is on the plot; the way I learned to write affected the way I think about how to write. In this case, to me the characters are just the vehicle through which the story is told. I always saw the plot as import because of the simple reason that the plot is the story. If you don't have a good plot, then you don't have a good story. And to me, a good story starts with a strong base and background, in a world where everything makes sense within its internal confines. If you don't have something tying everything together that makes sense."
"And because you didn't work on characters or style... you compensate by giving the things in the world deeper meaning so that when people read the story, there is more to it than just what the reader is reading superficially?"
"Correct; the deeper meanings that I have talked about previously, and won't bring up again for the sake of time- is how I compensate for my dryness and lack of "character writing" you could call it" Frank explained
"And now, we will go to the next point" Man In Black said
"Point Three- I am not a fan of the trope of just "I need to get stronger so I can become more powerful" because it is so overdone. It hasn't been brought up recently, but it was brought up when the old canon was our focus. Back then, I said when describing the strength of a Colorman, I said something to the effect of "when a Colorman truly fights for the sake of and in defense of others, then he has become unstoppable". Now in the interest of time and given how... awful, the forum search function is, I won't waste your time searching for the exact wording I used, but this is the essence of it. I find stories where people just pursue power and strength to benefit themselves to be... bland and predictable. Among the Colorfolk, I wanted to subvert that. Rather than making the quest for power about strengthening oneself, I decided that it would have more meaning that a Colorman or woman would only unlock their true potential when they realize exactly what it is they are fighting for. It is not "I am going to defeat you to prove how strong I am!" but rather "I am going to defeat you so that I can protect those I love and care about!" and when they realize that, that is how their true potential is unlocked. Because ultimately, realizing their true strength must come from thinking altruistically, not egocentrically" Frank concluded.
"So in other words, this philosophy does not work if the prism is evil compatible because evil works by a fundamentally different playbook?" The writer asked.
"Indeed; this premise only makes sense when the prism is incompatible with evil. Again, I just wanted to write a... "different kind" of hero, ones who don't pursue strength for themselves, but rather strength for the sake of others. Hence, although I failed to properly show it the first go around, what I ultimately want to do is make it that the Colorfolk's strongest spells, their "tier 4" spells, can only be truly mastered when the caster goes from "I am going to master this to get stronger" to instead thinking "I am going to master this so I can use this strength for the sake of others". The Colorfolk are meant to be the sworn defenders after all, and they are clearly not mercenaries who demand payment, so would it not make sense to use this premise when the meanings are considered?" Frank concluded.
Hmm... I can see why you want the prism to remain evil incompatible. Defense, have you anything to say in response to these points?" The writer asked, now looking at the other table
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