Post by Toz76 on Aug 21, 2023 5:59:18 GMT -5
WELCOME TO ORC LORE (WAIT, WHAT?)
WHAT IS AN ORC?
An orc is a modern term for a humanoid creature, sentient but usually evil. Orcs were popularized by their role in Lord Of The Rings, and have become a staple of modern fantasy as one of the "standard races" alongside elves and dwarves.
WHAT IS AN ORC IN 3WSR?
In the old canon, orcs are basically the same as they are in most fiction. Usually evil, good orcs are known to exist. The Guild of Death is known to have many orcs among their ranks. 3wsr.proboards.com/thread/506/ul-orciukh-codeuk, 3wsr.proboards.com/thread/749/orc-war-ordos-1202-1215, and 3wsr.proboards.com/post/21291 are useful resources for more information on 3WSR orcs.
WHAT IS AN ORC IN 4WSR?
Unclear. They are confirmed to exist, but we kinda never got around to properly introducing them?
WHAT IS AN ORC IN TOZWSR?
Now we're talking.
In TOZWSR, BRONZE BLOOD AND BONE, and other Toz-helmed versions of the 3WSR universe, most of the usual fantasy races don't exist. It felt like it complicated things too much. Giants exist, and their lore is largely unchanged. Dragons exist, naturally. But most of the remaining races have been removed and simplified.
But there's a lot of cool orc lore in 3WSR, and I don't want to waste it. That said, in a fantasy setting connected to the real world, it feels weird to have a fantasy race based on a book from the 40s in a world where they were canonically around in the 1200s and earlier. So, orcs can't just be orcs. But to just make them a sub-branch of fey seems disappointing. Therefore,
THE THREAD IS NOW CALLED OGRE LORE
In the beginning, THE GODS/WRITERS created humans, fey, and giants.
Then came the Stone Plague. What exactly the stone plague was is lost to time. No one has a satisfactory explanation for it except Fark Devonshire, and he sucks. But it is known that it ravaged the fey and the giants equally. Though some survived, and exist to this day, the descendants of the infected exist as distinct creatures. The humans were immune, and it is for this reason they came to dominate. The infected giants became the trolls. But the six types of fey were affected differently. The Spiritfolk became the Changelings, the semi-real tricksters of myth. The Birdfolk became Angels. The Merfolk became Sirens. The Bugfolk became the creatures of the Fell Hives. The Beastfolk became the Demons. And, it is said, from the Rainbowfolk, the carefree humanoids that make up the majority of the fey, came the Ogres.
OGRES
When you think ogres, you think of big naked creatures with loincloths, somewhere between human and giant, with big clubs, eating children.
Those are trolls. Keep up.
The Stone Plague turned the infected Rainbowfolk and their descendants into large humanoids with thick skin, usually a foot or so taller than the average human. The ogres had a specific mutation, where unlike the Rainbowfolk, who were generally herbivores and avoided killing, the ogres were true carnivores. They could not digest plants, and required a steady supply of meat to survive.
The result was that, though the ogres were as intelligent as any human (which is to say, not very, but more than an animal), their culture quickly became one of warfare and hunting. This led to a rather unsavory reputation that persists to this day, even on Magykka, though they are of course understood to be one of the more trustworthy and reasonable results of the Stone Plague.
Ogres live, on average, for about sixty years, with the oldest known ogre confirmed to be 103 (legends of ogres living longer are unconfirmed). Ogres mature slightly faster than humans, with the age of majority considered to be 15 (more precisely, 180 moons).
Ogres have a pronounced underbite, believed to be due to their high caloric requirements, and vestigal horn nubs on the side of their heads. Most ogres do not grow hair, although in colder climates ogres will grow a thick winter coat of fur, which sheds in the spring.
OGRE CULTURE
The Ogres worship four gods:
Notably, three of these are at least partially war gods. Only Cleykvek, more concerned with the daily life and health of the tribe, is distinguished from this.
Additionally, there are references to a fifth, evil god, a devil figure, called Tugock. The parallels with Teatro-Toicho legend, too obvious to spell out here, are the subject of much fascination by scholars (oh no the Toz lore is getting up its own ass again).
Ogre culture was governed by a strict moral code known as the Ogre Codex. It varied slightly between tribes, but the most common version is reprinted here.
1) Honor your Kothgat (chieftain, literally: kin-guard) above all else.
2) Honor the gods, Rakhtuk, Fraktarg, Tokvork, and Cleykvek.
3) Non-ogres are prey. Some prey may be allowed to live if it can be traded with.
4) Reject the life of the humans, giants, and fey, for they are opposed to our way of life.
5) All work should be for the good of the tribe.
6) Erot (elders) and Lerot (children) get first pick of the kill.
7) Sacrifice the choicest of the meat to the gods.
8) Do not duel with your tribemates, except to determine succession.
9) It is dishonorable to surrender.
10) Do not kill small children of non-ogres when you pillage their homes. Keep them, dress them in the garb of our people, and raise them as an ogre. If they walk the path of the four with honor, they are ogres in all but blood. They are called Krishnak (literally: us-but-not) and may not be Kothgat, but are of us.
11) Rival tribes should be respected, and not killed unless necessary.
12) The Krethat (warrior/hunter) is the noblest of the tribal duties, behind only Erot, Kothgat, and gods.
13) She-Ogres are to work as well as He-Ogres, unless they are with young, in which case they are Sokret (warrior-mothers).
14) After one moon with the tribe (for Krishnak) or four moons after birth (for Lerot), the young ones will be fed their first bite of manflesh. Should they refuse it, they are Enkosh (literally: defective) and must be castrated and used as servile labor. If they eat it, they are prepared to learn the way of the Krethat.
15) Two contenders for Kothgatiln (literally: future-kin-guard) are be chosen by the current Kothgat upon ascending to power. When the chief dies, they are to duel to the death. The winner eating the loser's heart signifies their ascension to power. (Note: longer versions of this rule exist to cover highly specific issues of succession, which are omitted here for brevity)
16) She-Ogres may not be Kothgat if they still are still fertile, unless they are Kretfrak.
17) A tribe member (not including Enkosh) who has lived for 500 moons or more and can no longer throw a spear 20 yards are to be hailed as Erot and be cared for for the rest of their days.
18) Upon pain of death, do not steal more than your share of food.
19) In times of famine, the Kothgat is fed last.
20) Mates choose each other and are approved by the Kothgat.
21) She-Ogres who wish to never be Sokret may swear the oath of Fraktarg to become Kretfrak (she-hunter) and be celibate forever on pain of death.
22) If it cannot be proven that the codes have been dishonored, the accused must duel to the death a human or fey soldier. If he be innocent, Rakhtuk will guide his blows to victory.
23) The murder of a tribesmate is an affront to the entire tribe. The killer must be brought to justice, and he who delivers the blow shall be honored in the eyes of Tokvork.
24) The act of sex is holy in the eyes of Cleykvek, and is to be shared and enjoyed by both mates.
25) Industry is for the Enkosh. The Krethat is concerned with hunting and fighting.
26) Cooked meat is an abomination. Food may be salted or smoked in case of famine.
27) Blood is finer than any wine.
28) He who slays a foe in battle lays claim to their armor and weapons.
29) He who lets a foe live is an agent of Tugock the Divider.
30) When fighting ogres, fight a fair fight. When fighting outsiders, there is honor in unfairness.
Some ogre tribes had different rules. Some ignored rule 10, some were lax towards 3 and 4, and a few were crueler to she-ogres. But in general, this was the mantra of an ogres.
A few general trends can be picked out here. Ogre culture was very combat focused, merit-based, and honor-centric. Both men and women could be "Kothgat", chief, but there were much stricter rules around women, mostly relating to childbirth, which was considered holy. Women could opt out of childbirth, at the cost of a life of celibacy. The Ogre tribal culture relied on an underclass, the "Enkosh", or "Defectives", eunuchs who did all the hard labor that the warriors and mothers could not. Ironically, it is from the Enkosh that much of our knowledge of Ogre culture and art is known, as they were often the scientists and artists of the community despite being the underclass. The ogres revere their elders and honor their young. The bulk of the tribe was made up of warrior-hunters, meaning the tribes could go to war at a moment's notice.
The biggest problem with ogre tribes is that they require a steady supply of meat to maintain the tribe. Ogres would often quickly deplete the ecosystem of whatever area they lived in, leading to a natural ebb and flow in ogre populations comparable to normal predator-prey dynamics. This was not always a problem on continents where there was ample land and meat for everyone, or for seafaring ogre tribes who could supplement their diets with fish, but on islands like Ordos, Ogres would often compete with the local human and giant populations for control over the limited resource of meat.
OGRES OF ORDOS (I am fully stealing this from Frank with minimal changes)
The six tribes of Ordos could be broken down into three sub-populations based on geographic location: Northern Ogres, Mountain Ogres, and Southern Ogres. Biologically there was no difference between them, though behaviors were different based on their surrounding circumstances.
NORTHERN OGRES:
These two tribes relied on a diet that was mostly game meat. They hunted animals in the forests as their primary source of sustenance. Because the humans farmed and raised their animals on the plains, an understanding was reached that "Humans get food from plains, Ogres get food from forests" among the tribes. No formal alliance or truce existed between the humans and Northern Ogres, but beyond the occasional fighting that did take place between the humans and ogres over disagreements stemming from the Ogres inability to recognize human land ownership, and the occasional fight between ogre tribes over frequency of hunting (see below), the Northern Ogres lived a relatively peaceful co-existence with humans. it was not until the 1180s, when fiercely anti-human tribal chiefs took over, that they began raiding human settlements more often. A lack of records from the Ogres' perspective, unfortunately, prevents us from knowing why this change took place.
The Dennok tribe: Very hostile towards outsiders. While sympathizers argued they were simply protecting their own their frequent attacks on human and fey settlements lead them to have few allies.
The Foglag tribe: Unlike the Dennok tribe, they maintained a peaceful relationship with the fey settlement that lived in the northern forest, and from them learned the lesson of the importance of avoiding over-hunting. (the fey themselves ate mostly plants, but some, mainly beastfolk, did eat meat, and accepted that fact as long as they did not over-hunt the animals). Multiple journal accounts from human observers tell about how the Foglag tribe tried to teach the Dennok tribe the dangers of over-hunting, but it was in vain. The Dennok tribe declared more than once "not hunting threat to survival of tribe! Foglag threat to tribe!" Depending on the generation and who was in charge of each respective tribe, the two Northern tribes were either in a state of peaceful co-existence, with the Dennok tribe respecting the wishes of the Foglag, or they were at war, with the Dennok tribe fighting the Foglag over what they perceived as a threat to the survival of their tribe (i.e. restricting hunting meant not enough food to go around, to them). Notably, the Foglag tribe practices a unique form of patrilineal succession much closer to human monarchs than traditional ogre practice, which lead to issues as we shall see.
MOUNTAIN OGRES:
Around the 900s, the Foglag tribes' chieftain died, and his three triplet sons argued over who should be in charge. Because they were all born the same day, the normal way succession worked in the Foglag tribe did not apply. Thenet argued he should be in charge because he "came from mother first," Begrin argued he should be in charge because he "was most fit to lead" (unlike most Ogres on Ordos, he was capable of speaking proper English, and before the Foglag tribe civil war he was determined to forge a peaceful alliance with the humans and fellow orcs once and for all) while Mortwal argued he should lead because he was "strongest of all warriors"
Two days of fighting within the Foglag tribe lead to Begrin becoming victorious, who decided that, for the sake of the tribe's survival, he had no choice but to exile his brothers and their followers. Half of the Foglag tribe remained loyal to Begrin, but one quarter of them followed Mortwal and the other quarter followed Thenet.
The two tribes ended up settling in the mountains, where they thought that since it was not as populated compared to other parts of the island, there would be less competition over resources. There wasn't; the Mountain Ogres ended up becoming the two most aggressive tribes on the whole island. The limited resources of the Mountain region put them in direct competition with the Ordosian trolls, who preyed on human and ogre children as sustenance; with small populations of fey and giants in the mountains; with the feared Ordonian vampires, and with each other. The limited resources and heavy competition ingrained in them the "fight to survive" lifestyle; so much so that when they began raiding the two human settlements of the mountain region more frequently, the King of Ordos ordered them to be relocated so they could be easier to defend.
Kelmet Tribe: Founded by Thenet and his followers. Pretty much believed that "might makes right"
Demwal Tribe: Founded by Mortwal and his followers. Unlike Thenet who valued strength above all, Mortwal at least instilled in his followers "the warrior's honor." As such, after a joint human-ogre expedition to deal with the troll population, he and his descendants subsequently decided that "human homes only to be raided as last resort" and subsequently tried not to attack humans if there were other options. Mortwal's descendant who lead the tribe during the Ogre wars abandoned this rule and resumed attacks on humans.
SOUTHERN OGRES:
Unlike the other tribes which had a diet of mostly land animal meat, the Southern Ogres primarily had a diet of fish, because the forests of Southern Ordos were not populated with as many animals as Northern Ordos, meaning that the Ogres needed to turn to the waters for food. Their string and ropes were of inferior quality to what the humans produced though, meaning that their attempts to fish often resulted in broken nets and snapped lines. Frustrated, but observing that the humans had more success with fishing, it was about two generations after the human and ogre settlements had properly been established that the ogres began raiding the humans for their fish. Although the humans did receive aid from other settlements (the various human settlements were united under a single king), the ogre raids caused much problems nonetheless. Although there was some level of understanding that the ogres were doing this as a matter of survival, human attempts to reason with the ogres and establish trade failed. It was not until the 800s when the dynamic finally changed.
Fegron Tribe: More aggressive towards humans compared to the Utjen tribe, after the South Ogres Wars ended they became spear fishermen and raids on humans, while still existent, became less frequent. (see below)
Utjen Tribe: In the 800s the humans were able to appeal to the tribe leader, Galmer, to cease their raids on human settlements. So, an agreement was made: in exchange for a reasonable supply of fish to be provided on an agreed upon schedule, the Utjen would help protect the human settlements from raids by the Fegron tribe (who had rejected similar trade offers). After this agreement was made, the Fegron tribe declared war on the Utjen tribe. A series of battles between 832 and 838 became known as the "South Ogre Wars" which ended with an Utjen victory. Although the ogres were very aggressive and considered surrender shameful, the Fegron tribe, in the end, used the reasoning that "no war worth fighting if cannot get food" and decided that the best way to end the war was to shift focus to trying fishing themselves. Though their nets were still problematic, they were able to become great spear fishers, using rivers as their source of food.
Until the arrival of the Prismatic Knights, the Southern Ogres dynamic was fairly straightforward: the Utjen tribe was more amicable to humans, while the Fegron tribe was hostile. These two tribes relied on fish as primary sustenance, and would try and raid human settlements when their catch was low. Given the Utjen's alliance with humans, this made them enemies of the Fegron tribe.
The Fegron eventually decided that sometimes they would go north to hunt... but this put them at odds with the Northern Ogres, especially the Foglag tribe.
OGRE LANGUAGE
Several dialects of Ogrish are known to exist, however the language evolved relatively little over hundreds of years. Ogrish is a language that sounds rather brutal to the human ear, with lots of harsh consonants, relatively few vowels, and a fairly simple grammar relative to other languages. It is often directly contrasted with languages like Lesser Giantish, Ordonian, Old Magykkan, and Feyrikke, which are generally considered "beautiful", "artful", and "haunting". Of course, some of this perception must be acknowledged as simply bigotry. No evidence exists of ogres being any less intelligent than any other sapient species, and while limited examples of ogre art and written language exist, the art that does exist is fascinating and displays a complex inner life and understanding of social dynamics
I'LL FINISH THIS SECTION LATER IT'S ALMOST 4AM AND I SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING ON OTHER STUFF
WHAT IS AN ORC?
An orc is a modern term for a humanoid creature, sentient but usually evil. Orcs were popularized by their role in Lord Of The Rings, and have become a staple of modern fantasy as one of the "standard races" alongside elves and dwarves.
WHAT IS AN ORC IN 3WSR?
In the old canon, orcs are basically the same as they are in most fiction. Usually evil, good orcs are known to exist. The Guild of Death is known to have many orcs among their ranks. 3wsr.proboards.com/thread/506/ul-orciukh-codeuk, 3wsr.proboards.com/thread/749/orc-war-ordos-1202-1215, and 3wsr.proboards.com/post/21291 are useful resources for more information on 3WSR orcs.
WHAT IS AN ORC IN 4WSR?
Unclear. They are confirmed to exist, but we kinda never got around to properly introducing them?
WHAT IS AN ORC IN TOZWSR?
Now we're talking.
In TOZWSR, BRONZE BLOOD AND BONE, and other Toz-helmed versions of the 3WSR universe, most of the usual fantasy races don't exist. It felt like it complicated things too much. Giants exist, and their lore is largely unchanged. Dragons exist, naturally. But most of the remaining races have been removed and simplified.
But there's a lot of cool orc lore in 3WSR, and I don't want to waste it. That said, in a fantasy setting connected to the real world, it feels weird to have a fantasy race based on a book from the 40s in a world where they were canonically around in the 1200s and earlier. So, orcs can't just be orcs. But to just make them a sub-branch of fey seems disappointing. Therefore,
THE THREAD IS NOW CALLED OGRE LORE
In the beginning, THE GODS/WRITERS created humans, fey, and giants.
Then came the Stone Plague. What exactly the stone plague was is lost to time. No one has a satisfactory explanation for it except Fark Devonshire, and he sucks. But it is known that it ravaged the fey and the giants equally. Though some survived, and exist to this day, the descendants of the infected exist as distinct creatures. The humans were immune, and it is for this reason they came to dominate. The infected giants became the trolls. But the six types of fey were affected differently. The Spiritfolk became the Changelings, the semi-real tricksters of myth. The Birdfolk became Angels. The Merfolk became Sirens. The Bugfolk became the creatures of the Fell Hives. The Beastfolk became the Demons. And, it is said, from the Rainbowfolk, the carefree humanoids that make up the majority of the fey, came the Ogres.
OGRES
When you think ogres, you think of big naked creatures with loincloths, somewhere between human and giant, with big clubs, eating children.
Those are trolls. Keep up.
The Stone Plague turned the infected Rainbowfolk and their descendants into large humanoids with thick skin, usually a foot or so taller than the average human. The ogres had a specific mutation, where unlike the Rainbowfolk, who were generally herbivores and avoided killing, the ogres were true carnivores. They could not digest plants, and required a steady supply of meat to survive.
The result was that, though the ogres were as intelligent as any human (which is to say, not very, but more than an animal), their culture quickly became one of warfare and hunting. This led to a rather unsavory reputation that persists to this day, even on Magykka, though they are of course understood to be one of the more trustworthy and reasonable results of the Stone Plague.
Ogres live, on average, for about sixty years, with the oldest known ogre confirmed to be 103 (legends of ogres living longer are unconfirmed). Ogres mature slightly faster than humans, with the age of majority considered to be 15 (more precisely, 180 moons).
Ogres have a pronounced underbite, believed to be due to their high caloric requirements, and vestigal horn nubs on the side of their heads. Most ogres do not grow hair, although in colder climates ogres will grow a thick winter coat of fur, which sheds in the spring.
OGRE CULTURE
The Ogres worship four gods:
- Rakhtuk: God of battle, justice, death and chieftans, comparable to Ares
- Fraktarg: Warrior maiden and goddess of the hunt and tradition, comparable to Athena
- Tokvork: God of the tribe, nature, and righteous warfare, husband of Cleykvek
- Cleykvek: Goddess of sex, health, fertility, and the family, wife of Tokvork
Notably, three of these are at least partially war gods. Only Cleykvek, more concerned with the daily life and health of the tribe, is distinguished from this.
Additionally, there are references to a fifth, evil god, a devil figure, called Tugock. The parallels with Teatro-Toicho legend, too obvious to spell out here, are the subject of much fascination by scholars (oh no the Toz lore is getting up its own ass again).
Ogre culture was governed by a strict moral code known as the Ogre Codex. It varied slightly between tribes, but the most common version is reprinted here.
1) Honor your Kothgat (chieftain, literally: kin-guard) above all else.
2) Honor the gods, Rakhtuk, Fraktarg, Tokvork, and Cleykvek.
3) Non-ogres are prey. Some prey may be allowed to live if it can be traded with.
4) Reject the life of the humans, giants, and fey, for they are opposed to our way of life.
5) All work should be for the good of the tribe.
6) Erot (elders) and Lerot (children) get first pick of the kill.
7) Sacrifice the choicest of the meat to the gods.
8) Do not duel with your tribemates, except to determine succession.
9) It is dishonorable to surrender.
10) Do not kill small children of non-ogres when you pillage their homes. Keep them, dress them in the garb of our people, and raise them as an ogre. If they walk the path of the four with honor, they are ogres in all but blood. They are called Krishnak (literally: us-but-not) and may not be Kothgat, but are of us.
11) Rival tribes should be respected, and not killed unless necessary.
12) The Krethat (warrior/hunter) is the noblest of the tribal duties, behind only Erot, Kothgat, and gods.
13) She-Ogres are to work as well as He-Ogres, unless they are with young, in which case they are Sokret (warrior-mothers).
14) After one moon with the tribe (for Krishnak) or four moons after birth (for Lerot), the young ones will be fed their first bite of manflesh. Should they refuse it, they are Enkosh (literally: defective) and must be castrated and used as servile labor. If they eat it, they are prepared to learn the way of the Krethat.
15) Two contenders for Kothgatiln (literally: future-kin-guard) are be chosen by the current Kothgat upon ascending to power. When the chief dies, they are to duel to the death. The winner eating the loser's heart signifies their ascension to power. (Note: longer versions of this rule exist to cover highly specific issues of succession, which are omitted here for brevity)
16) She-Ogres may not be Kothgat if they still are still fertile, unless they are Kretfrak.
17) A tribe member (not including Enkosh) who has lived for 500 moons or more and can no longer throw a spear 20 yards are to be hailed as Erot and be cared for for the rest of their days.
18) Upon pain of death, do not steal more than your share of food.
19) In times of famine, the Kothgat is fed last.
20) Mates choose each other and are approved by the Kothgat.
21) She-Ogres who wish to never be Sokret may swear the oath of Fraktarg to become Kretfrak (she-hunter) and be celibate forever on pain of death.
22) If it cannot be proven that the codes have been dishonored, the accused must duel to the death a human or fey soldier. If he be innocent, Rakhtuk will guide his blows to victory.
23) The murder of a tribesmate is an affront to the entire tribe. The killer must be brought to justice, and he who delivers the blow shall be honored in the eyes of Tokvork.
24) The act of sex is holy in the eyes of Cleykvek, and is to be shared and enjoyed by both mates.
25) Industry is for the Enkosh. The Krethat is concerned with hunting and fighting.
26) Cooked meat is an abomination. Food may be salted or smoked in case of famine.
27) Blood is finer than any wine.
28) He who slays a foe in battle lays claim to their armor and weapons.
29) He who lets a foe live is an agent of Tugock the Divider.
30) When fighting ogres, fight a fair fight. When fighting outsiders, there is honor in unfairness.
Some ogre tribes had different rules. Some ignored rule 10, some were lax towards 3 and 4, and a few were crueler to she-ogres. But in general, this was the mantra of an ogres.
A few general trends can be picked out here. Ogre culture was very combat focused, merit-based, and honor-centric. Both men and women could be "Kothgat", chief, but there were much stricter rules around women, mostly relating to childbirth, which was considered holy. Women could opt out of childbirth, at the cost of a life of celibacy. The Ogre tribal culture relied on an underclass, the "Enkosh", or "Defectives", eunuchs who did all the hard labor that the warriors and mothers could not. Ironically, it is from the Enkosh that much of our knowledge of Ogre culture and art is known, as they were often the scientists and artists of the community despite being the underclass. The ogres revere their elders and honor their young. The bulk of the tribe was made up of warrior-hunters, meaning the tribes could go to war at a moment's notice.
The biggest problem with ogre tribes is that they require a steady supply of meat to maintain the tribe. Ogres would often quickly deplete the ecosystem of whatever area they lived in, leading to a natural ebb and flow in ogre populations comparable to normal predator-prey dynamics. This was not always a problem on continents where there was ample land and meat for everyone, or for seafaring ogre tribes who could supplement their diets with fish, but on islands like Ordos, Ogres would often compete with the local human and giant populations for control over the limited resource of meat.
OGRES OF ORDOS (I am fully stealing this from Frank with minimal changes)
The six tribes of Ordos could be broken down into three sub-populations based on geographic location: Northern Ogres, Mountain Ogres, and Southern Ogres. Biologically there was no difference between them, though behaviors were different based on their surrounding circumstances.
NORTHERN OGRES:
These two tribes relied on a diet that was mostly game meat. They hunted animals in the forests as their primary source of sustenance. Because the humans farmed and raised their animals on the plains, an understanding was reached that "Humans get food from plains, Ogres get food from forests" among the tribes. No formal alliance or truce existed between the humans and Northern Ogres, but beyond the occasional fighting that did take place between the humans and ogres over disagreements stemming from the Ogres inability to recognize human land ownership, and the occasional fight between ogre tribes over frequency of hunting (see below), the Northern Ogres lived a relatively peaceful co-existence with humans. it was not until the 1180s, when fiercely anti-human tribal chiefs took over, that they began raiding human settlements more often. A lack of records from the Ogres' perspective, unfortunately, prevents us from knowing why this change took place.
The Dennok tribe: Very hostile towards outsiders. While sympathizers argued they were simply protecting their own their frequent attacks on human and fey settlements lead them to have few allies.
The Foglag tribe: Unlike the Dennok tribe, they maintained a peaceful relationship with the fey settlement that lived in the northern forest, and from them learned the lesson of the importance of avoiding over-hunting. (the fey themselves ate mostly plants, but some, mainly beastfolk, did eat meat, and accepted that fact as long as they did not over-hunt the animals). Multiple journal accounts from human observers tell about how the Foglag tribe tried to teach the Dennok tribe the dangers of over-hunting, but it was in vain. The Dennok tribe declared more than once "not hunting threat to survival of tribe! Foglag threat to tribe!" Depending on the generation and who was in charge of each respective tribe, the two Northern tribes were either in a state of peaceful co-existence, with the Dennok tribe respecting the wishes of the Foglag, or they were at war, with the Dennok tribe fighting the Foglag over what they perceived as a threat to the survival of their tribe (i.e. restricting hunting meant not enough food to go around, to them). Notably, the Foglag tribe practices a unique form of patrilineal succession much closer to human monarchs than traditional ogre practice, which lead to issues as we shall see.
MOUNTAIN OGRES:
Around the 900s, the Foglag tribes' chieftain died, and his three triplet sons argued over who should be in charge. Because they were all born the same day, the normal way succession worked in the Foglag tribe did not apply. Thenet argued he should be in charge because he "came from mother first," Begrin argued he should be in charge because he "was most fit to lead" (unlike most Ogres on Ordos, he was capable of speaking proper English, and before the Foglag tribe civil war he was determined to forge a peaceful alliance with the humans and fellow orcs once and for all) while Mortwal argued he should lead because he was "strongest of all warriors"
Two days of fighting within the Foglag tribe lead to Begrin becoming victorious, who decided that, for the sake of the tribe's survival, he had no choice but to exile his brothers and their followers. Half of the Foglag tribe remained loyal to Begrin, but one quarter of them followed Mortwal and the other quarter followed Thenet.
The two tribes ended up settling in the mountains, where they thought that since it was not as populated compared to other parts of the island, there would be less competition over resources. There wasn't; the Mountain Ogres ended up becoming the two most aggressive tribes on the whole island. The limited resources of the Mountain region put them in direct competition with the Ordosian trolls, who preyed on human and ogre children as sustenance; with small populations of fey and giants in the mountains; with the feared Ordonian vampires, and with each other. The limited resources and heavy competition ingrained in them the "fight to survive" lifestyle; so much so that when they began raiding the two human settlements of the mountain region more frequently, the King of Ordos ordered them to be relocated so they could be easier to defend.
Kelmet Tribe: Founded by Thenet and his followers. Pretty much believed that "might makes right"
Demwal Tribe: Founded by Mortwal and his followers. Unlike Thenet who valued strength above all, Mortwal at least instilled in his followers "the warrior's honor." As such, after a joint human-ogre expedition to deal with the troll population, he and his descendants subsequently decided that "human homes only to be raided as last resort" and subsequently tried not to attack humans if there were other options. Mortwal's descendant who lead the tribe during the Ogre wars abandoned this rule and resumed attacks on humans.
SOUTHERN OGRES:
Unlike the other tribes which had a diet of mostly land animal meat, the Southern Ogres primarily had a diet of fish, because the forests of Southern Ordos were not populated with as many animals as Northern Ordos, meaning that the Ogres needed to turn to the waters for food. Their string and ropes were of inferior quality to what the humans produced though, meaning that their attempts to fish often resulted in broken nets and snapped lines. Frustrated, but observing that the humans had more success with fishing, it was about two generations after the human and ogre settlements had properly been established that the ogres began raiding the humans for their fish. Although the humans did receive aid from other settlements (the various human settlements were united under a single king), the ogre raids caused much problems nonetheless. Although there was some level of understanding that the ogres were doing this as a matter of survival, human attempts to reason with the ogres and establish trade failed. It was not until the 800s when the dynamic finally changed.
Fegron Tribe: More aggressive towards humans compared to the Utjen tribe, after the South Ogres Wars ended they became spear fishermen and raids on humans, while still existent, became less frequent. (see below)
Utjen Tribe: In the 800s the humans were able to appeal to the tribe leader, Galmer, to cease their raids on human settlements. So, an agreement was made: in exchange for a reasonable supply of fish to be provided on an agreed upon schedule, the Utjen would help protect the human settlements from raids by the Fegron tribe (who had rejected similar trade offers). After this agreement was made, the Fegron tribe declared war on the Utjen tribe. A series of battles between 832 and 838 became known as the "South Ogre Wars" which ended with an Utjen victory. Although the ogres were very aggressive and considered surrender shameful, the Fegron tribe, in the end, used the reasoning that "no war worth fighting if cannot get food" and decided that the best way to end the war was to shift focus to trying fishing themselves. Though their nets were still problematic, they were able to become great spear fishers, using rivers as their source of food.
Until the arrival of the Prismatic Knights, the Southern Ogres dynamic was fairly straightforward: the Utjen tribe was more amicable to humans, while the Fegron tribe was hostile. These two tribes relied on fish as primary sustenance, and would try and raid human settlements when their catch was low. Given the Utjen's alliance with humans, this made them enemies of the Fegron tribe.
The Fegron eventually decided that sometimes they would go north to hunt... but this put them at odds with the Northern Ogres, especially the Foglag tribe.
OGRE LANGUAGE
Several dialects of Ogrish are known to exist, however the language evolved relatively little over hundreds of years. Ogrish is a language that sounds rather brutal to the human ear, with lots of harsh consonants, relatively few vowels, and a fairly simple grammar relative to other languages. It is often directly contrasted with languages like Lesser Giantish, Ordonian, Old Magykkan, and Feyrikke, which are generally considered "beautiful", "artful", and "haunting". Of course, some of this perception must be acknowledged as simply bigotry. No evidence exists of ogres being any less intelligent than any other sapient species, and while limited examples of ogre art and written language exist, the art that does exist is fascinating and displays a complex inner life and understanding of social dynamics
I'LL FINISH THIS SECTION LATER IT'S ALMOST 4AM AND I SHOULD HAVE BEEN WORKING ON OTHER STUFF