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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Mar 23, 2018 15:07:56 GMT -5
It's fine to address a plot point, but in doing so don't ruin the character.
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Post by Toz76 on Mar 23, 2018 16:14:30 GMT -5
How does that ruin the character?
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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Mar 23, 2018 16:39:45 GMT -5
The Man isn't quick to temper.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Mar 23, 2018 20:26:28 GMT -5
Then please tell us more about him already; you keep telling us these things after the fact and it's doesn't help us from our perspective when we want to write for him
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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Mar 23, 2018 20:37:19 GMT -5
Then don't write for him until we reach LM20.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Mar 23, 2018 20:43:04 GMT -5
Well regardless, I'm using that scene in LM 20;
If you have feedback on what he would say to the responses, I'd like to hear it. Otherwise; I have no choice but to keep it as is
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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Mar 23, 2018 21:52:14 GMT -5
In that case:
The Man would never ask someone if they're scared of them. He wouldn't respond the way he does to Hartley. He wouldn't even give Hartley a chance to say that. If he had a conversation on the phone with Hartley, it would be little more than a quick call to tell him *insert here* and then hang-up. I don't mind Hartley thinking/saying that to himself or even in person to The Man, but The Man would not be the instigator and he would also not give off THAT response. If we were to do a scene like that, it would probably be near the climax with The Man finally coming face-to-face with Hartley, either through a kidnapping or elsewise. Hartley would question The Man, his motive, explain why he thinks it's crazy, and then it could lead up to The Man's revealing.
Remember, The Man is a good person at heart who is trying to get rid of evil, only he's doing it in questionable ways. Obviously, something Hartley did is the root of The Man's target of him.
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Post by Toz76 on Mar 23, 2018 22:07:17 GMT -5
"Trying to get rid of evil in questionable ways"
This was the whole point of the Blade Syndicate in LM13, actually. I'm curious what route you're going to take this, but Frank is right that we don't have enough info to understand what you're doing.
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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Mar 24, 2018 1:05:43 GMT -5
I myself haven't quite figured out how it'll all pull together, but we've got three core things we're tackling in the novel:
-Drugg's papers -Hartley and Cricket -The Man
It should pull together when we finally get to it. Upon completion, maybe I can finally leave LM behind for a time because hooo boy is it a mental overload.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Apr 15, 2018 19:39:41 GMT -5
Hey Toz76 ; when you get a chance, think you can do the jailbreak scene for LM 14? It's the only thing left we're waiting on before we go to "the next day" and proceed with the overall plot.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Apr 21, 2018 16:52:37 GMT -5
While waiting for LM 14, 15 and 16, here's an idea that popped into my head fairly recently. (Still waiting on the prison breakout toz ). I'll be Frank; Gunnarson and Hartley reconciled way to quickly in LM 5; we need some sort of conflict between them. So... ...... Gunnarson was making his breakfast in his apartment, no different from any other morning. He was looking forward to another day of hard work at Koket of Sweden, when he suddenly heard a knock at his door. Confused, he went to open the door... and a young woman was waiting on the other side. "Can I help you?" The Swede asked. "Yes; I'm looking for Adolf Gunnarson. I am in need of his services" she explained. "You've come to the right apartment ma'am. How can I help you, miss..." "Please, just call me Abigail. I will get straight to the point- I need you to find my husband; he's been missing for years and I think he only recently turned up" she explained. "My God... what happened that you lost your husband for so long?" Gunnarson asked, shocked. "Well, the two of us were high school sweet hearts. We were going to get married and raise a family together but... but then the war broke out. Things were fine for a few months, but then he decided to enlist. As a promise to me that he would return, we got married and... ahem, enjoyed a honeymoon before he left. But... but he never came back" she said tearfully. "Could he have died?" Gunnarson asked. "I thought so to, but then a miracle happened. I've been keeping an eye on the papers and some time ago, I read that he was seen at court testifying in a murder trial... the one you had been caught up in when you supposedly murdered your neighbor" she explained as she began taking some articles out of a bag. "Your husband showed up at that trial? Well, I didn't really show up until the end, long story, but I should be able to help. Is there anything that can help me identify him?" "Oh you should be able to recognize him no problem... he's the one who proved you were innocent" she said, continuing to pull out some papers and others pieces. "Testify to my innocence?" Gunnarson said, confused. Then he realized something. "Wait a minute... what's your full name?" Gunnarson asked. "Oh, terribly sorry. It's Hartley. Mrs. Abigail Hartley. And I need you to find my husband, James Hartley" she explained. Then Gunnarson saw some of the articles she had produced- newspaper clippings from the court case that depicted Hartley both testifying at the end... and the aftermath when he was shot in the leg. Playing it cool, Gunnarson looked over the pictures. "Well ma'am, Hartley is a common name around here... are you sure this is your husband?" Gunnarson asked. "Oh absolutely. And I know that there are con artists out there who claim to be relatives who are looking for someone but actually have darker motives, but I want you to trust me, so here is the proof that I am indeed who I say I am" she explained. Producing her Identification card, she proved she was genuinely who she was. Then she pulled out the marriage certificate... and Gunnarson recognized Hartley's signature immediately. Finally, she produced photographs of the two of them... while in high school, as adults, their wedding... and finally, Hartley in uniform with Abigail before he had set off for the war. But then came the surprise he did not expect. "Mommy; is the nice man going to find Daddy?" a young girl said, poking her head through the door of Gunnarson's apartment. Gunnarson looked at her... and he could not deny what he was seeing. In this little girl, he saw both Abigail's wavy hair and fair skin... and Hartley's eyes and brown hair. "Ellen, wait outside; Mommy will be finished soon" she assured before the little girl went back into the hallway. "You'll have to forgive her; she's normally so well behaved but she is understandably outside of her comfort zone now" she explained. "But won't James be so happy to hear that he is a father" she said happily. Gunnarson had been shocked until now of what was happening before him. He could not believe it at all. Then his shock gave way to anger as the devoutly Christian Gunnarson realized the awful sin Hartley had committed. "You damn bigamist... how dare you break this woman's heart AND your child's!" He thought, not even realizing his choice of words. "And then there is Cricket... just be glad she is living with her father right now... it is better the news be broken to her gently later. Forgive me, old friend... but this time, it is you who I am after" he thought to himself. Then he turned to Abigail, "I shall find your husband by the end of the week. Just be warned... some things may be shocking... to both of us" he explained. "I just want my husband home safe and sound, please" Abigail said, finally beginning to sound hopeful. The two exchanged goodbyes, then Gunnarson made a phone call. "Yes sir; personal troubles just came up, I will need to be out for a couple days. Thank you for understanding sir" Gunnarson said before hanging up. An hour later, Gunnarson was at the Train Station. "The earliest express train to Scotland please" he began as he went to get his ticket. "I'm coming for you Hartley" he thought to himself
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Apr 21, 2018 16:53:40 GMT -5
Don't worry everyone- I already figured out how this ties into the whole LM universe as a whole... there's actually a very simple reason why Hartley didn't remember them until this story
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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Apr 21, 2018 17:11:50 GMT -5
I can't wait to see what Cricket thinks of all of this.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Apr 23, 2018 14:05:41 GMT -5
For those wondering g about LM 16-
The murder does not happen until after the ship is out at sea.
The first part of the story- departing Southampton, and the stops in Cherbourg and Queenstown, is our "setting the stage" where we meet our cast of characters, tour the ship a bit so our readers can "get oriented" on where everything is, and set the tone of the story. Once out at sea... the "action" takes place.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Apr 27, 2018 17:45:21 GMT -5
So, after thinking it over, I've decided-
The scene with the phone call between Hartley and the man, I am going to keep as is and insert early on. (It may become a direct encounter though)
The reason is simple- what makes a great villain in mystery is three key characteristics-
1) they are memorable
2) they represent a substantial threat to the hero
3) they contribute in such a way that they leave an impact on our hero
Dr Drugg was memorable because he was all three of these. Blade was memorable because he was all of these. But the Man is none of these. He was not memorable. He was stopped the moment he confronted the hero. And his impact? He shadowed Hartley and was shot four times by Gunnarson, and retreated.
So, how does this scene fit in then? Simple, it leads to the Man getting all three of these traits. It develops him, and he becomes someone Eyes can be proud of.
I will meet in the middle with Eyes though; before the exchange will be something along the lines of "do you expect me to be afraid of you?" "Ah, an excellent question indeed. Tell me... are you scared of me?"
And then after the hang up, the man's anger drops as he observes something along the lines of "so that is how he reacts to anger... he remains calm... getting through to him will be difficult; perhaps I should not play with him as much this time"
In short, this will save the man, since currently most of us aren't excited for his appearance in LM 20. He needs to be built up to, not suddenly dropped on us, and this scene will start that process.
The revelation has me curious; who is he that Eyes insists on being so secretive?
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Apr 27, 2018 18:03:15 GMT -5
Oh, and so everyone is on the same page-
Eyes said he's holding back on LM 15 for the moment; he said he wanted to experiment with a different writing style and he's not posting just yet
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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Apr 27, 2018 19:33:53 GMT -5
I don't wanna be THAT GUY, but if I'm going to finally tackle The Man it needs to be done my way. I'm glad you've got ideas but again, you all haven't seen anything yet. Stop worrying about how The Man will be and only focus on him when we get to LM20.
I want it to come naturally, and upsetting the balance now isn't going to do anything. If you want me to be proud of my "villain" then it needs to be done in the frame I have myself.
I'm sorry I can't tell you more about him, but there it is. Please stop worrying about The Man for now.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on Apr 27, 2018 20:11:21 GMT -5
Well then about LM 15- you read the parts I wrote yet? I hope they fit the style you wanted to go with
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Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Apr 27, 2018 21:55:21 GMT -5
I'm doing something tonight but I've time tomorrow. Will get to it then.
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Post by frankthetriviaman on May 11, 2018 15:44:34 GMT -5
So some discussion has been going on as of late, and the following proposal would like to be considered.
Due to LM having a more developed plan in mind than LM 15 at this point, it has been proposed that LM Titanic become the new LM 15 and the current LM 15 be pushed to 16, on the grounds that it is not quite as developed and will take longer to write.
Toz, tug, Eyes, your thoughts. (it was your suggestion tug, but feel free to share your arguments)
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