|
Post by frankthetriviaman on Jul 29, 2016 17:32:13 GMT -5
So there is something that has come up several times in light of some observations that several VEC recruits seem to have odd quirks or unusual abilities.
This was explained as that "there is more good than evil in the world, and powerful mages are hard to come by". But because this was never really elaborated, I wanted to open up a discussion on how "good and evil" work in 3WSR. At least, what I have figured out so far.
Good and evil are intangible forces, yet they have a powerful influence on how people behave. In the case of magic users, whether they are good or evil depends on a variety of factors. These can include the source of power, one's morals and even how trained to use magic.
But where does "there is more good than evil" come in to play if the forces are intangible? Powerful mages and super humans exist for both sides of the spectrum, yet there are more good ones than evil ones.
I suppose the best way to think about it is as if there was an imaginary balance, with "good" on one side and "evil" on the other. The point is to maintain some sort of balance in the world, by there being good and evil, but without one completely taking over the other. Though a series of recent events, including but not limited to the reassembling of The Prism and the Spirit of the Prism destroying Philos, have resulted in the balance shifting towards good. The idea is that right now it is sort of a 70/30 on good/evil (NOTE: numbers are arbitrary, meant to demonstrate the idea of more of one is present than the other)
However, this balance works both ways; events can happen that can shift the balance towards evil.
So then the question becomes why all these questionable recruits to VEC, but not the others? Well, recall that SOM's composition actually goes very far back. They have not recruited much recently, so their membership is primarily the powerful beings that have already been a part of SOM for years.
But VEC has done plenty of recruiting recently. The reason why the recruits are questionable is that since there is more good than evil, although powerful beings have been recruited, they are rare and hard to come by. This leaves them "scraping the bottom of the barrel" with what is left.
However, should the balance shift, it is entirely possible that more powerful evil mages could be revealed, or even that the ones that are questionable could be upgraded.
That all being said, that is just one interpretation of good and evil in the story. Now, I open the discussion up- how do you interpret good and evil in the story?
|
|
|
Post by Toz76 on Jul 29, 2016 18:13:42 GMT -5
My interpretation of good of evil has always just been a morality system, but one that can be detected and filtered out through magic. On Sodor, it's considered a big deal, but it's less so for, say, GOD, where good and evil members intermingle. I do like the balance of evil idea, however, but I think the balance is beginning to shift back to evil now that SOM and VEC are growing in power.
|
|
|
Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Jul 29, 2016 18:18:31 GMT -5
I honestly just go with it - I don't have any real thoughts on good and evil in The Game. (Though if it shifts over to evil being more powerful, I'm gonna be one of the people leading that. )
|
|
|
Post by frankthetriviaman on Jul 29, 2016 18:21:48 GMT -5
Well yes, there is a morality system present, which is the basis of good and evil; but what I was getting at was at how the forces interact with one another.
And you are correct, should the GHB rise, the balance, while still in good's favor, will shift towards evil a bit more.
|
|
|
Post by Toz76 on Nov 19, 2016 0:15:20 GMT -5
The distinction between good and evil is a major part of 3WSR, but we've never truly established what those terms mean in 3WSR. So let us discuss it in ridiculous detail.
|
|
|
Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Nov 19, 2016 0:18:08 GMT -5
Let me lay it out for you in clear terms... "Good" is when you don't wanna kill someone unless it's absolutely necessary. "Evil" is when you don't give a f**k about life.
|
|
|
Post by Toz76 on Nov 19, 2016 0:30:08 GMT -5
It's not that simple though. VEC and GOD are both considered "evil" as a whole, but the leaders of each group prefer to avoid killing unless it accomplishes their goals. Also, the GOD Alignment Scramblers make it impossible to tell if they're good or evil, which raises more questions, since it seems like Good and Evil are almost innate characteristics of people that can be measured, blocked and manipulated, as opposed to simple morality.
|
|
|
Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Nov 19, 2016 0:34:29 GMT -5
OK then, how about this: "Good" is the protagonists and "evil" is the antagonists? (I'm sorry, I've been reading too much Order of the Stick and been listening to too much Death that I'm not thinking straight, talk to me tomorrow and I might think of something better. Also, the threads have been merged BTW.)
|
|
|
Post by frankthetriviaman on Nov 19, 2016 1:18:46 GMT -5
Theories developed so far:
1) The Frank theory of good and evil suggests that "good" and "evil" are determined by the level of corruption in one's being. That which is good is the absence of corruption, and that which is evil is the corruption of one's being. Corruption is caused by something intangible, but it can be removed, and in some cases takes a physical form as "pure evil."
2) The Toz theory of good and evil suggests that "good" and "evil" are both intangible forces, which exist separately of each other, but the level of both depends on the character of the individual
3) The D-11 theory of good and evil suggests that evil is evil and good is good.
|
|
|
Post by frankthetriviaman on Feb 9, 2017 15:09:34 GMT -5
So in light of the recent posts made on the game, I wanted to compile what we learned here and see if it makes sense to everyone else (because I can't think of another thread where this goes)
So we have said that with regards to good and evil, there is more good than evil in the 3WSR Universe, but we never really explained why.
In the recent postings, in addition to the Colormen (and possibly Colorwomen) destroying many, many evil factions during the first era (as implied by earlier posts; and to be developed in later stories), it has also been revealed that SOM has done a lot of recruiting, especially during the Colormen Dark Era.
They allied themselves with other evil factions, and destroyed their enemies, which may also imply that there were other evil factions that stood against them that they destroyed. Their recruiting has lead to them becoming a very large organization with many powerful members.
This also explains another aspect- why VEC has trouble recruiting powerful mages. Many recruits tend to be of "questionable" effectiveness, because we have said in the past that there is more good than evil in the world, and with powerful, evil mages hard to come by, VEC is left "scrapping the bottom of the barrel" for what is left.
And as it turns out, the SOM's recruitment is exactly why VEC is left doing that- because SOM beat VEC to recruiting them, VEC is stuck recruiting what is left over.
So, does that make sense to everyone, or did we leave something out?
|
|
|
Post by Toz76 on Feb 9, 2017 19:48:49 GMT -5
Does this imply then that good and evil are actually equal, and SOM (probably also GOD to an extent) just have most of the evil mages in their ranks already? Or are good mages still more commonplace than evil ones?
|
|
|
Post by frankthetriviaman on Feb 9, 2017 20:22:31 GMT -5
Good is still more commonplace; recall, there are many undeveloped Colorfolk factions, and there's also non-Colorfolk factions too.
Because a lot of evil was destroyed during the Colormen first Era (and, to a lesser extent, the remaining noble factions during the dark era), I think it is more accurate to say that among the surviving evil mages, the reason so many are still alive is they joined SOM.
|
|
|
Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Feb 9, 2017 20:26:36 GMT -5
I'd argue that evil and good are equal - each person has some good and some evil and it's all a matter of balancing them out. Crooks let evil take control whereas charity collectors like their goodness shine (unless they're just scamming you off).
|
|
|
Post by frankthetriviaman on Feb 9, 2017 21:50:59 GMT -5
A fair point, but remember- in the story we established that there was more good than evil, and there had to be, because the last time both forces were equal, it almost tore the world apart (World War II)
It was during the scene where Blue, Bronze and BT met BT's teacher, who explained the whole thing with why there had to be more good than evil in the world, but at the same time good could not exist without evil
|
|
|
Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Feb 9, 2017 22:12:42 GMT -5
But on the subject of BT, he's a total hypocrite if all he's focusing on is the Colorfolk and leaves the rest of the world to go to hell. I've said it before but it just doesn't add up.
|
|
|
Post by Toz76 on Feb 9, 2017 22:17:12 GMT -5
I think that's meant to be a weakness for him, his single-mindedness. It makes sense to me. (I'm not objecting, BT is so irritatingly powerful at times that I'd prefer him to ignore the rest of the world)
|
|
|
Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Feb 9, 2017 22:22:07 GMT -5
I'd prefer him to either fix the situation permanently or resign as head omnipotent. Not only is he ignoring the rest of the world, he could plainly wipe evil out of existence, whether on earth or just on Sodor. VEC and the Colorfolk don't need to have the battles if he would do something but he doesn't for some reason and I cannot see why not. Plus there's a lot less story potential if he can just write stuff out of existence. (In other words, stop stopping my story lines if BT doesn't do anything worth doing otherwise.)
I like the character but what he does bugs me.
|
|
|
Post by frankthetriviaman on Feb 9, 2017 23:01:49 GMT -5
No, he looks at the rest of the world; we just don't see that because the story is not about him.
Again, because he respects free will, he only intervenes when "said intervention will do more good than him not intervening"
And he also won't destroy all evil, because that would wreck havoc on the balance
|
|
|
Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Feb 9, 2017 23:04:21 GMT -5
If there's no evil there would be no balance to begin with.
|
|
|
Post by Toz76 on Feb 9, 2017 23:10:12 GMT -5
And that's the point.
Without evil, there can be no conflict. What conflict there is will be easily resolved because both sides are ultimately right and good. With no evil, people will become happy and complacent and little progress will occur. And that's ignoring the subjectivity of morality. What is the ultimate evil to some is a day in the life for others.
|
|