Post by frankthetriviaman on Jul 3, 2024 22:19:30 GMT -5
Well, this has been a long time coming, but I think its time for serious discussion on this topic to begin, as we have kept coming back and forth to it over the years. I think most of the skeletons and core ideas are there, but it's time to bring them to the next level. For this, we need to take each volume, assess their strengths and weaknesses, and figure out how they can be improved to be better, since we collectively know we can do better.
So, let's get into it (NOTE: Will revise over time)
VOLUME ONE:
The one that started it all. Eyes actually got a great start on a remastered version of this story, and I hope we can see her continue with it in the future.
VOLUME TWO:
So, I think we all know what happened here: Eyes tried to do a plot on a Femme fatale assassin, I tried to do a plot on a classic Whodunnit, and tug tried to do a plot on international espionage, and everything crashed and burned together resulting in the infamous ending, where I wrapped everything up in a way that made sense, only for Eyes to "pull the rug out from under us" and do a twist that really made no sense.
that's what happens when we don't communicate our ideas. So, a simple fix- Elvira works, but if we just make it Franz Gelb, that also works. Put simply, we need to pick a plot, stick with it, and make it make sense.
VOLUME THREE:
Coming soon; but at least 70 percent of it is fine
VOLUME FOUR:
Honestly, it's a pretty good story, little polish here and there, it still holds up.
VOLUME FIVE:
We need to cut the Christie characters, plain and simple. Probably cut some unnecessary scenes and action, play up Dr. Drugg more. Possibly omit the Henry Taylor plot depending on what changes we make. But one aspect is staying the same: We are bringing together the Blade Syndicate, the Irish Mob, Dr. Drugg and Elvira into one volume: all "Phase One" major villains appear
VOLUME SIX:
Needs to be chucked and replaced all together. Nothing substantial happened worth remembering, a couple plot points were begun, introduced and went nowhere, and that ending is so, SO anti-climactic and unsatisfying. We need a new volume. More than likely- a Walton-focused volume. I'm leaning towards his first case following "the day hell came to London" and his first utilization of the special equipment against the Criminal Elite of London, and ending with the horrifying realization that a new breed of criminal is emerging... Walton only stopped the criminals in question because he had to use the equipment- "normal" police methods did not work on them. And while only one or two were killed and the rest arrested, realizing that they only surrendered when they realized something was "different about this cop" they finally surrendered. First allusions to the "tier system" and the concept of criminals so dangerous they could almost be called "criminal soldiers".
VOLUME SEVEN:
The core idea is there, but needs polishing and refinement. Its a classic whodunnit, we just need to bring out the proper potential
VOLUME EIGHT:
All the unnecessary death needs to be cut, plain and simple, and the plot cleaned up. Also, unpopular opinion, but I am firmly for removing JJE from this volume. All the other villains and plots meshed together cohesively, JJE's did not and honestly feels like an afterthought (Eyes- I promise this is constructive criticism). Also, I need to remove all traces of "prototype" Walton that was so problematic. More on point- JJE did not add anything meaningful, significant or relevant to the overarching plot of the story and his inclusion makes no sense. Therefore, the simplest solution is to remove him from the volume, and focus on the plots that do come together cohesively... especially since we are setting up Lord Bury as the "Big bad" of London's underworld going forward
VOLUME NINE:
Well, some expanding here and there and cleaning up, but otherwise this story is pretty solid.
VOLUME TEN:
Ugh... The embodiment of an idea that sounded great on paper but fell flat. I liked the idea of the tables turning on Gunnarson but... rereading it, the volume is just so... wrong. Especially with "official" Walton being a totally different character. As such, this story also needs replacing... with what, I just don't know at the moment.
VOLUME ELEVEN:
I think the core ideas are there, but the story does need polishing and refining. And if Walton is staying- which is doubtful, the hostility to Gunnarson has to be chucked. Probably more "concern that he's getting in over his head or letting his emotions get to him" would be better. Requires further discussion
VOLUME TWELVE:
Mostly solid story, just needs some polish. Probably a cleaner ending too. Marlena has potential, and I think really emphasizing the "promising detective who is young and makes mistakes, but is heading in the right direction" is a good story worth exploring
VOLUME THIRTEEN:
Probably needs reworking, given Toz has expressed a lack of satisfaction over the arms thing in other threads. I also want to majorly simplify Elvira's trauma scene to be a heart to heart with her love interest, rather than that unnecessary psychologist thing; man, what an oversight on my part. Again, discussion on this one
VOLUME FOURTEEN:
Honesty, my favorite volume and some of the best back and forth between me and Tug. A little polish, but the story is 80 percent fine
VOLUME FIFTEEN:
Ugh... the prime example of getting selfish over an idea and forcing it on everyone else. I was riding high on a major resurgence in my Titanic interest and forced it down everyone's throats. So much so no one else knew what to do and I was the only one who did anything substantial, which is now how 3WSR works and goes against the essence of what we are. Needs to be chucked and replaced; maybe a multi-detective story.
VOLUME SIXTEEN:
Well... it's not bad, but it could be better. We need to way, way lower Blaze's body count to be more believable, and the biggest change we *need* to make- we need to remove Walton from the story and make Winslow THE detective in the story. Walton can appear in cameos advising and giving advice to Winslow, maybe see him working on his own cases, but Walton must be removed from the primary narrative.
The reason is simple: JJE and Walton are thematically incompatible. The themes and ideas each explore cannot mesh together in a way that satisfies me for Walton or satisfies Eyes for JJE. The ending is also really forced and contrived; I was not a fan of the whole "JJE defeated Walton because Walton was injured" because 1) BOTH were injured, so the handicap was irrelevant and 2) Eyes, in her well-intentioned attempt to portray JJE a certain way, broke Walton's character, the ending would not have unfolded that way had Walton stayed in character.
But that is beside the point- Walton must be removed from this story so the themes explored by JJE can properly shine, without the incompatible themes Walton explores getting in the way
VOLUME SEVENTEEN:
Just some polishing, really. Tug was honestly the strongest LM writer of the four of us and it holds up really well. We can keep as is.
VOLUME EIGHTEEN:
Coming soon
So, let's get into it (NOTE: Will revise over time)
VOLUME ONE:
The one that started it all. Eyes actually got a great start on a remastered version of this story, and I hope we can see her continue with it in the future.
VOLUME TWO:
So, I think we all know what happened here: Eyes tried to do a plot on a Femme fatale assassin, I tried to do a plot on a classic Whodunnit, and tug tried to do a plot on international espionage, and everything crashed and burned together resulting in the infamous ending, where I wrapped everything up in a way that made sense, only for Eyes to "pull the rug out from under us" and do a twist that really made no sense.
that's what happens when we don't communicate our ideas. So, a simple fix- Elvira works, but if we just make it Franz Gelb, that also works. Put simply, we need to pick a plot, stick with it, and make it make sense.
VOLUME THREE:
Coming soon; but at least 70 percent of it is fine
VOLUME FOUR:
Honestly, it's a pretty good story, little polish here and there, it still holds up.
VOLUME FIVE:
We need to cut the Christie characters, plain and simple. Probably cut some unnecessary scenes and action, play up Dr. Drugg more. Possibly omit the Henry Taylor plot depending on what changes we make. But one aspect is staying the same: We are bringing together the Blade Syndicate, the Irish Mob, Dr. Drugg and Elvira into one volume: all "Phase One" major villains appear
VOLUME SIX:
Needs to be chucked and replaced all together. Nothing substantial happened worth remembering, a couple plot points were begun, introduced and went nowhere, and that ending is so, SO anti-climactic and unsatisfying. We need a new volume. More than likely- a Walton-focused volume. I'm leaning towards his first case following "the day hell came to London" and his first utilization of the special equipment against the Criminal Elite of London, and ending with the horrifying realization that a new breed of criminal is emerging... Walton only stopped the criminals in question because he had to use the equipment- "normal" police methods did not work on them. And while only one or two were killed and the rest arrested, realizing that they only surrendered when they realized something was "different about this cop" they finally surrendered. First allusions to the "tier system" and the concept of criminals so dangerous they could almost be called "criminal soldiers".
VOLUME SEVEN:
The core idea is there, but needs polishing and refinement. Its a classic whodunnit, we just need to bring out the proper potential
VOLUME EIGHT:
All the unnecessary death needs to be cut, plain and simple, and the plot cleaned up. Also, unpopular opinion, but I am firmly for removing JJE from this volume. All the other villains and plots meshed together cohesively, JJE's did not and honestly feels like an afterthought (Eyes- I promise this is constructive criticism). Also, I need to remove all traces of "prototype" Walton that was so problematic. More on point- JJE did not add anything meaningful, significant or relevant to the overarching plot of the story and his inclusion makes no sense. Therefore, the simplest solution is to remove him from the volume, and focus on the plots that do come together cohesively... especially since we are setting up Lord Bury as the "Big bad" of London's underworld going forward
VOLUME NINE:
Well, some expanding here and there and cleaning up, but otherwise this story is pretty solid.
VOLUME TEN:
Ugh... The embodiment of an idea that sounded great on paper but fell flat. I liked the idea of the tables turning on Gunnarson but... rereading it, the volume is just so... wrong. Especially with "official" Walton being a totally different character. As such, this story also needs replacing... with what, I just don't know at the moment.
VOLUME ELEVEN:
I think the core ideas are there, but the story does need polishing and refining. And if Walton is staying- which is doubtful, the hostility to Gunnarson has to be chucked. Probably more "concern that he's getting in over his head or letting his emotions get to him" would be better. Requires further discussion
VOLUME TWELVE:
Mostly solid story, just needs some polish. Probably a cleaner ending too. Marlena has potential, and I think really emphasizing the "promising detective who is young and makes mistakes, but is heading in the right direction" is a good story worth exploring
VOLUME THIRTEEN:
Probably needs reworking, given Toz has expressed a lack of satisfaction over the arms thing in other threads. I also want to majorly simplify Elvira's trauma scene to be a heart to heart with her love interest, rather than that unnecessary psychologist thing; man, what an oversight on my part. Again, discussion on this one
VOLUME FOURTEEN:
Honesty, my favorite volume and some of the best back and forth between me and Tug. A little polish, but the story is 80 percent fine
VOLUME FIFTEEN:
Ugh... the prime example of getting selfish over an idea and forcing it on everyone else. I was riding high on a major resurgence in my Titanic interest and forced it down everyone's throats. So much so no one else knew what to do and I was the only one who did anything substantial, which is now how 3WSR works and goes against the essence of what we are. Needs to be chucked and replaced; maybe a multi-detective story.
VOLUME SIXTEEN:
Well... it's not bad, but it could be better. We need to way, way lower Blaze's body count to be more believable, and the biggest change we *need* to make- we need to remove Walton from the story and make Winslow THE detective in the story. Walton can appear in cameos advising and giving advice to Winslow, maybe see him working on his own cases, but Walton must be removed from the primary narrative.
The reason is simple: JJE and Walton are thematically incompatible. The themes and ideas each explore cannot mesh together in a way that satisfies me for Walton or satisfies Eyes for JJE. The ending is also really forced and contrived; I was not a fan of the whole "JJE defeated Walton because Walton was injured" because 1) BOTH were injured, so the handicap was irrelevant and 2) Eyes, in her well-intentioned attempt to portray JJE a certain way, broke Walton's character, the ending would not have unfolded that way had Walton stayed in character.
But that is beside the point- Walton must be removed from this story so the themes explored by JJE can properly shine, without the incompatible themes Walton explores getting in the way
VOLUME SEVENTEEN:
Just some polishing, really. Tug was honestly the strongest LM writer of the four of us and it holds up really well. We can keep as is.
VOLUME EIGHTEEN:
Coming soon