Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Jul 22, 2018 1:40:04 GMT -5
Diesel 11
3WSR Wikia
11:41
Frankthetriviaman
Not actually doing "the reset"
11:41
Toz76
We may want Tug's imput though
11:42
Frankthetriviaman
just setting the stage, that kind of thing
I know I talked about it with you guys before though; so I'm pretty sure what I had in mind didn't contradict his plans
11:42
Toz76
Alright, go ahead
11:44
Frankthetriviaman
Working on the LMs first; if I'm quiet I apologize
11:45
Toz76
No problemo
12:05
Frankthetriviaman
So, Out of curiosity
have you seen any of the Next Generation of crime set ups yet?
12:05
Toz76
I think so
Welcome to the Colorfolk Wikia chat
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12:09
Toz76
Hiyes
12:09
Diesel 11
hey
12:10
Frankthetriviaman
hi
So you wanted to discuss LM?
Something come up?
12:11
Diesel 11
yes
firstly
LM 20 is far more complete in my mind
I have a title, opening scenes, revelation scene, who The Man really is, etc
Still ironing out the Cricket fiasco but I know where I wanna go with it, just not 100% satisfied with how to do it
but
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12:13
Frankthetriviaman
yes?
12:13
Diesel 11
i want LM 20 to feel very natural and not just "oh yeah we had that one pointless character in LM 8 who we need to fuckin' get rid of already"
so
are there any future LMs that I can utilize him in
12:13
Frankthetriviaman
to be honest
no
And you actually hit the nail right on the head; that's exactly what the man is
more relevantly though
Going through the list- there doesn't seem to be an entry where it would make sense
......
LM 14- Irish mob focused
LM15- a dream
LM 16- That antimony murder thing
LM 17- a checkhov's gun get's fired
LM 18- Blade's last stand
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12:17
Diesel 11
what's LM 17 about again?
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12:17
Frankthetriviaman
LM 19- that still life thing you wanted to do
Then LM 20
Tug and I are still talking about it
12:18
Diesel 11
what's the checkhov's gun supposed to be then?
12:18
Toz76
Is this the whole bigamy thing
12:18
Frankthetriviaman
Yea; we were considering making Shattered Bonds LM 17
12:18
Toz76
Depending on what you want to do with the man, we can work him into 18
Please don't
12:19
Frankthetriviaman
Tug really liked the idea
12:19
Toz76
You're only doing that to mess with Eyes
12:19
Frankthetriviaman
It's only in draft phase; and no I'm not
12:19
Toz76
Then tell him your plan
12:21
Frankthetriviaman
I was going to when it was all ironed out; I don't want to show him a plan that's 50 percent thought out, I want him to see a plan that's 100 percent thought out
12:22
Toz76
He's the only one that doesn't know, and the only one who's plans it directly affects
12:22
Frankthetriviaman
But if he's here, I can at least tell him about the focus being the firing of the checkhov's gun and explaining a rather significant date discrepancy in our volumes
12:22
Toz76
He has more right to know than I do
12:23
Diesel 11
what's the checkhov's gun you're bringing up anyhow
12:24
Frankthetriviaman
the restraining order; me and tug are not fond of how it was just "hand waved" at LM 10 because the insistence of the marriage
So now something is going to come of it
However- it will in no way affect your plans for LM 20. that's the important part
Win-win for both of us
12:25
Diesel 11
i see
12:25
Toz76
I thought it ended with Hartley divorced and in jail
12:25
Frankthetriviaman
I was getting to that
Given how important a development this is supposed to be
I need to know eyes is here, and willing to hear me out
12:27
Diesel 11
i'm willing to hear you out
12:27
Frankthetriviaman
Ok
Like I said- the idea is only about 50 percent there and in draft phase
But the key elements are there
You saw the shattered bonds introduction with Abigail Hartley, right eyes? It was in the LM discussion thread, page 11
want me to bump it up so you can see it again?
12:31
Diesel 11
i think i remember it
and bumping is against the rules now, so don't
12:32
Frankthetriviaman
Oh yes, that
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12:33
Frankthetriviaman
*Did we ever clarify if bumping includes bringing up story material for the sake of review? That's not so much a bump as it is a way to make important material more accessible
but more to the point
It was decided that the original LM 15 intro with Koket, Gunnarson and Cricket would be the intro just before that scene with Abigail at the apartment
12:34
Diesel 11
there needs to be something significant to make a bumping post at least, not just "bump" or "bumping this up so more people can see it" yadda yadda
ok
12:35
Frankthetriviaman
Ok, so if I were to post the combined introduction so you could see how it looks, is that ok?
*The splicing process caused edits to both parts, so it's more like "posting the next draft" than "a rehash of an old post" if that helps
test
12:39
Diesel 11
hi
sure that works
12:40
Frankthetriviaman
alright, one second
there
posted the introduction
12:41
Diesel 11
ok
i'll read it
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12:45
Frankthetriviaman
let me know when you're done
12:47
Diesel 11
ok
so
stop getting Gunnarson to swear, it's not fitting and just bugs me to death
12:48
Frankthetriviaman
That's why I said he didn't realize his choice of words
12:48
Diesel 11
i don't care what he realized
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12:49
Frankthetriviaman
Ok, I'll be honest- I was concerned that if I posted Swedish, all of you would call me a hypocrite for violating the language policy
12:49
Diesel 11
no we wouldn't
Gunnarson is Swedish, and we should've implemented far more Swedish into our stories than we've done
anyway
i would seriously take out the entire "Damn bigamist... broke people's hearts... and then there's Cricket..." thing and just say, "Dear god, Hartley, what a mess...."
Given they've been friends for so long and that Gunnarson is a very logical man, it's very forced that he would turn on Hartley so fast
12:52
Frankthetriviaman
Given that Gunnarson was a devout Christian, I honestly thought it would be out of character for him to say anything less and you would lambast me for being not as forceful
12:53
Diesel 11
Gunnarson is a Lutheran who believes in God but doesn't let his faith get in the way of himself, his relations, and his work
"Damn" is anyway out of character for him if he's as devout as you thought
but as a whole this is just too forced
if you just changed these really minor things i'm otherwise okay with it
12:54
Frankthetriviaman
Let me see...
While I'm making edits
We need to find a way to explain why it's ok for Gunnarson to use Swedish in our stories without us looking like hypocrites for violating the language policy
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12:58
Frankthetriviaman
"All posts must be made in English"
12:59
Toz76
Oh my god
Really?
A few lines in Swedish in the middle of an otherwise-English post is fine
Obvious
12:59
Diesel 11
^^^^^^^^^
1:01
Frankthetriviaman
Like I said initially- I just don't want to be called a hypocrite
1:01
Diesel 11
talking of language, how far has your German progressed, Toz?
1:01
Frankthetriviaman
That's what I'm concerned about
1:02
Diesel 11
you won't be, you're overthinking it
1:05
Frankthetriviaman
all right
I made edits and Gunnarson's internal dialogue milder. Improved?
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1:06
Diesel 11
greatly
anything more you can tell me about it?
1:07
Frankthetriviaman
Well, Gunnarson confronts Hartley. But Hartley has no memory of Abigal or Ellen. So naturally, Gunnarson does some investigating to find out what the truth is
But it's hard to find any record of what exactly is the truth
For example, Gunnarson decides one lead would be to interview the minister who officiated the ceremony; only to find out he was killed in the blitz
Like I was trying to say- I wanted to think this over more, because you deserved to hear out an idea that was completely developed, not half-developed
I have a beginning, and I have an ending, and a couple key pieces
that's about it
1:11
Diesel 11
i see
1:13
Frankthetriviaman
BTW- for clarification; they haven't been friends as long as you think; they only met in 1942 and Shattered Bondstakes place in 1949. Just seven years, and remember- Harley lives in Scotland; so they don't see each other that much.
I imagine off screen, most of their time communicating is by letter and phone
I really, REALLY need to develop that timeline
1:14
Diesel 11
7 years and the things they've been through together are enough to make them 'good friends'
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1:17
Frankthetriviaman
I imagine Hartley still has some lingering problems with Gunnarson though; remember, he did nearly kill Hartley at the end of LM 1. In hindsight, I should've brought that up in their reunion discussion in LM 5 and for that I apologize
1:19
Diesel 11
for the most part a great deal of LM has been a disaster
1:20
Frankthetriviaman
Tell me about it; I think we disccussed rewriting part of LM 10 because of how muddled Mason's motives were
not the good parts; their fine. Just the more confusing parts
1:22
Diesel 11
anyway
another thing i wanted to say
throw everything you've ever written or thought about The Man away
1:23
Frankthetriviaman
because?
1:24
Diesel 11
if we're finally going to clear him up, it needs to be done right
all these little bits and pieces everyone else write up only make my job harder, and he's already a hard character to write for
1:25
Frankthetriviaman
Then I'm not throwing away Hartley confronting The Man over the fact that he's not afraid of him. it's about the only thing that saves his character. I'm willing to get rid of the other stuff though
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1:26
Frankthetriviaman
I'll reword it to be a monologue to meet in the middle; but that I'm firm on
1:26
Diesel 11
no
that's the bit i hate the most
because it's so out of character for The Man anyway
1:26
Frankthetriviaman
I just said I'll reword it
How can it be out of character when he hasn't shown any character? Everything that's known about him is in discussion, not story
1:27
Diesel 11
and that's why i was asking if there was an LM i could use him in
1:28
Frankthetriviaman
I think the only one that's free between now and 20 is 19.
Everything else has ideas involved where the man's plot doesn't play into it
1:29
Diesel 11
Toz said i might be able to use him in LM 18
otherwise we can always save what we've got for LM 16 so far and use it later, instead making an LM about The Man
1:30
Frankthetriviaman
I don't like forcing plots; he should only be introduced there if it makes sense
1:30
Diesel 11
i know
1:30
Frankthetriviaman
In the case of LM 18- it's about the final bow of the Blade Syndicate
1:30
Diesel 11
i know
1:31
Frankthetriviaman
And with the mob, Blade, Elvira and Drugg gone, this clears the way for the next generation, i.e. the rippers, to take over
1:32
Diesel 11
yes
which is why i brought up the second suggestion
1:33
Frankthetriviaman
Well if you don't have anything with the antimony murder for now, you can use LM 16
Tell me... if you plan on making this a Man focused book, how would it play out?
1:35
Diesel 11
i have no idea yet
all i know is i have a character who needs more build-up and more character expressed
1:36
Frankthetriviaman
That's what I've been saying for how long
1:37
Diesel 11
Frank, you know literally nothing about The Man because the idiot that I am hasn't done much with him yet
you keep making judgements based in nothing
1:38
Frankthetriviaman
I make observations based on the sequences which were in LM 8
1:38
Diesel 11
and then you throw every tree in the forest done in my path to finally put it all together
as it is, The Man, Cricket, and that fucking LM 20 are the only things that I really have any interest in whatsoever right now
1:41
Frankthetriviaman
I never obstructed you; I've been trying to help you, but there's been no communication
1:41
Diesel 11
that's because i don't even trust myself
LM 20 has the ability to be 'special'
but it's gotta be just right
1:42
Frankthetriviaman
Honestly, I think the only way to save The Man, since the problem was his introduction where he contributed nothing to the plot
LM 8 gets reworked; the Man gets a separate short story and more development so he properly shines and looks important. Now LM 8's narrative looks less muddled and the Man gets an introduction that makes sense
If you think about it; that's been the root of the problem
His introduction was muddled; so fix the introduction, and from there everything simply flows in naturally
1:44
Diesel 11
i dunno
i'll try to think up a way to make a story for him utilizing LM 16
1:45
Frankthetriviaman
It's perfect; the man gets a narrative that focuses on him, and LM 8, which as it stands is a mess, starts looking better
1:47
Diesel 11
LM 8 was a personal favorite of mine though; while not perfect, i never had as much fun writing in any story ever as i did then
yes, it could be "remastered" a little but not as much as you're thinking
The Man's final scene was brilliant IMO
it's just we've gotta do something with him now before we hit 20
1:48
Frankthetriviaman
Every plot irrelevant death needs to be cut. You remember the cardinal rule of mystery. NEVER kill unless it accelerates plot development
I did NOT introduce the dirty four to get killed; I introduced them to worldbuild
Yes, I will agree on that
The Man had a great final scene
one of the highlights of the book
1:50
Diesel 11
hold on, i gotta use the bathroom
1:51
Frankthetriviaman
ok
*I'm going to finish up soon btw
I really don't want to be in bed by three again
1:53
Diesel 11
i've got it
i know how to tackle The Man
it requires just a bit of LM 17 though
1:54
Frankthetriviaman
How so?
1:54
Diesel 11
we do that phone conversation thing you wanted
with a little change
1:54
Frankthetriviaman
that would be?
1:55
Diesel 11
we have him taunt Hartley about his 'marital troubles' and then i can foreshadow The Man's revealing
then you can do your thing with Hartley thinking about how not scary The Man is
1:56
Frankthetriviaman
Ok, so let me try something
1:56
Diesel 11
and meanwhile i basically know how we can do LM 16
1:57
Frankthetriviaman
How so?
......
*Don't mind me; just doing something
So we go from this:
"Tell me Hartley; are you scared of me?" The Man asked.
"Quite frankly... no" Hartley said rather dryly.
"What?!" The Man said angrily.
"I don't know what your deal is, and quite frankly I don't care. I met you only once and that was, what, five years ago? Heck, we didn't even meet for two minutes. I don't know how you know me, but the fact is that I don't know you, and to me you're just a nutcase you tried to kill me and failed... speaking of which shouldn't you be dead after being shot four times?" Hartley finished.
"Why you little... you will die Hartley! I swear it!" The Man shouted.
"Yea... this is exactly why I moved. You may be a nutcase, but I'd rather not see you any time soon. Don't call this number again; as far as I'm concerned you and I will never meet again" and Hartley hung up the phone. In perspective- what was he getting so worked up over? This "Man" was nothing more than a blip in his past... a weirdo who came into his life for but a moment then never came back. Hartley decided to do the only thing that made sense: move on with his life and continue with his housework.
......
And we turn it into this:
"Hope your little marital troubles get resolved" The man said tauntingly (placeholder line)
Hartley thought it over for a second, and said "You know what, I'm not scared of you" rather bluntly.
"come again?"
"I don't know what your deal is, and quite frankly I don't care. I met you only once and that was, what, five years ago? Heck, we didn't even meet for two minutes. I don't know how you know me, but the fact is that I don't know you, and to me you're just a nutcase you tried to kill me and failed... speaking of which shouldn't you be dead after being shot four times?" Hartley finished.
"You will die Hartley! I swear it!" The Man declared with great conviction.
"Yea... this is exactly why I moved. You may be a nutcase, but I'd rather not see you any time soon. Don't call this number again; as far as I'm concerned you and I will never meet again" and Hartley hung up the phone. In perspective- what was he getting so worked up over? This "Man" was nothing more than a blip in his past... a weirdo who came into his life for but a moment then never came back. Hartley decided to do the only thing that made sense: move on with his life and continue with his housework.
2:01
Diesel 11
still needs some editing because again, the character for The Man is a bit different than what you're thinking
gimme a minute
2:02
Frankthetriviaman
*That's why I indicated a "placeholder" line. Of course the taunting goes there; I just put that kind of line there so we wouldn't forget
2:02
Diesel 11
no no just give me a minute and you'll see what i'm thinking of
2:07
Frankthetriviaman
Wait, now I'm confused
Are we keeping antimony murder at 16 now? I thought you said you figured out how that would work
2:07
Diesel 11
no
that one can be 21 or something like that
2:08
Frankthetriviaman
So we're making this scene for 17 then
2:08
Diesel 11
yes
2:08
Frankthetriviaman
so we'll free 16 for now then?
2:08
Diesel 11
and for 16 i've figured out a way to make a Man based story
2:08
Frankthetriviaman
and that's where I got lost
did you want me to see an outline for the man story, or this scene?
2:09
Diesel 11
i'm rewriting this scene as we speak, almost finished
2:10
Frankthetriviaman
After that I'll be turning in then
getting late
2:12
Diesel 11
Hartley wiped his brow. So many things were whirling around in his head he could barely stand. At that very moment, the telephone rang. Exhaling heavily to clear himself, he picked up the receiver.
"Oh hullo again," said a voice.
"Excuse me, who is this?" Hartley asked.
"Just The Man your old detective friend decided would be fun to riddle with lead. Listen, I heard about your 'marital troubles' and-"
"What the devil is this?" Hartley snapped.
"-and I just wanted to send you my condolences," The Man said sarcastically. "Wasn't enough you had to ruin the life of one woman, but to take on two more plus a child... I'm impressed. Hope you get everything sorted out, man, best of luck. We'll meet up again, some place, some way, one day..."
Hartley was about to respond, but the line went dead.
Good lord, he thought. I don't know what his deal is. Frankly, I don't really care. I met him only once and that was, what, five years ago? Heck, we didn't even meet for two minutes. I don't know how he knows me, but the fact is that I don't know him, and to me he's just a nutcase who tried to kill me and failed... speaking of which shouldn't he be dead after being shot four times?
But Hartley had no more time to mull this over; he had more pressing matters to attend to.
2:17
Frankthetriviaman
LM 17 is going to be written in third person btw
2:17
Diesel 11
o
k
that works well
2:18
Frankthetriviaman
I might rework a bit more of my thing to add onto the end; but overall, I see the direction you are going for
2:19
Diesel 11
mainly: The Man wouldn't outburst like that, he is both sane and insane all at once
kind of along the lines as The Joker, but also very different at the same time
he's more moral and human
and i'm gonna try setting up LM 16 and we can hope it helps his character out
2:22
Frankthetriviaman
Good lord, he thought to himself, "I don't know what his deal is. Frankly, I don't really care. I met him only once and that was, what, five years ago? Heck, we didn't even meet for two minutes. I don't know how he knows me, but the fact is that I don't know him, and to me he's just a nutcase who tried to kill me and failed... speaking of which shouldn't he be dead after being shot four times?" His mind continued to muse.
In perspective- though, what was he getting so worked up over? This "Man" was nothing more than a blip in his past... a weirdo who came into his life for but a moment then never came back. But Hartley had no more time to mull this over; he had more pressing matters to attend to.
The addition of quotation marks really helps clarify the writing
Dang it I thought I asked TGC to set the emojis back to normal
2:23
Diesel 11
TGC doesn't even know how to work it
he just copied the TTTE Wiki's system and deleted ours
but something like that should be fine
2:24
Frankthetriviaman
We gotta get the thomas emoji's out of here
2:24
Diesel 11
i'll post it all to the forum
2:24
Frankthetriviaman
I suppose a new wiki chat would be part of the new wiki should we get to it
2:26
Diesel 11
ok i posted it to the forum
i added one little bit i forgot so read it through again
2:29
Frankthetriviaman
Ok; thanks for spacing it out too
2:30
Diesel 11
this time i think we're both satisfied, right?
2:30
Frankthetriviaman
Yes; as much as I would have preferred it be said directly to him, the essence of what I wanted is there
All right, I think that does it for now
2:31
Diesel 11
ok
i'll see if i can set up the new LM 16 tonight and we can begin in earnest tomorrow
2:31
Frankthetriviaman
Like I said, I'm thinking Lm 17 through; There is a beginning and ending, it just needs the plot development in the middle
2:31
Diesel 11
alright
i look forward to hearing the whole picture, and so long as it doesn't contradict anything huge in LM 20 it should be good to go
2:32
Frankthetriviaman
Like I said
the ending will not contradict LM 20; if anything, it's going to account for a few things, and heck, it will probably help with inspiration for 20
2:33
Diesel 11
coolio
2:33
Frankthetriviaman
You did say you needed something for the whole Hartley Cricket relationship thing; something to "throw a wrench in the works" if you will
trust me- I almost have it thought out. I just can't tell you it yet because it's not at 100 percent
closer to 80 percent
also Im really tired and not thinking straight
2:35
Diesel 11
it's not their relationship so much as Cricket herself; i've got a general idea of what i wanna do with her (and it's all based on previous LM volumes), i'm just not yet sure about how to do that and how it'll affect her and Hartley
but yeah, if done right, LM 20 can be something really 'special'
and thank god we're doing three LMs at one time, otherwise we'd be nowhere
2:35
Frankthetriviaman
Well, some constructive criticism- they need something to test their relationship. The whole "jumping straight to the bliss" doesn't help our narrative
2:36
Diesel 11
there's literally going to be no bliss for them whatsoever
2:36
Frankthetriviaman
That's part of LM 17
anyway; I think we'll call it there
good night
2:36
Diesel 11
night
again, i'll set up 16 and we'll talk more tomorrow
2:37
Frankthetriviaman
sounds good
I do hope you enjoy at least reading Baleros and Titanic
2:37
Diesel 11
yeah, Baleros is awesome
Titanic is a little wordier and that means it's something i need to read when nothing else is happening at that moment
but it looks very interesting after giving it a good skim over
2:38
Frankthetriviaman
I love how real history will be playing into it
2:38
Diesel 11
yep
2:38
Frankthetriviaman
you'd be surprised at how well these stories write themselves
good night
2:38
Diesel 11
night
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