Post by Biblically Accurate Angel on Nov 7, 2017 23:43:09 GMT -5
hi
8:54
Diesel 11
Hi.
8:56
Frankthetriviaman
I have an idea for a scene in Thomas and the Tugs; can you just give me a few minutes to write it?
8:56
Diesel 11
Sure.
TGC Thomas has joined the chat.
9:09
TGC Thomas
I'm here now!
9:10
Diesel 11
Hi TGC!
9:10
TGC Thomas
So, I think we should talk about the canon debate and one episode in particular, Snow.
I've noticed that a lot of people don't like it and I feel we should deal with it before other stuff
9:11
Diesel 11
I'd consider it canon.
9:12
TGC Thomas
I'm going to find a blog post that Donald
*DonaldDouglasAndToby6 wrote
jesus I can't type right now
wait actually I think Blog Posts were removed from the TTTE Wiki
9:13
Diesel 11
Yeah, they were.
9:13
TGC Thomas
Wow, first the chat and then blog posts
9:14
Diesel 11
They've been gone for a long time, though.
9:14
TGC Thomas
I don't usually go on the wiki, and if I do I go to check a thing then leave
9:15
Diesel 11
Usually the same for me, though I'm on the forum quite often.
9:16
Frankthetriviaman
Oh hey TGC; how's it going.
*Sorry, I was writing
9:17
TGC Thomas
I'm just looking for a review on Season 5's Snow as a lot of people don't like it I've seen.
i found this thomasfriendsreviews.blogspot.com/2012/12/s5-ep25-snow.html
9:18
Diesel 11
Huh, interesting.
9:18
TGC Thomas
The review seems quite harsh but it has some points
9:18
Frankthetriviaman
Ah yes, I remember that one. it had a good action sequence if I recall, but that is a fair point
Perhaps we should consider it a bad dream Skarloey had... or perhaps a story Rusty simply made up for Thomas?
9:19
TGC Thomas
The second one might work
So, Frank, we got some Season 7 Episodes you didn't like in the last chat, what about Season 6?
9:21
Frankthetriviaman
I'd have to go back and review it
harvey to the rescue, since Edward was OOC
"He's just a bunch of new fangled nonsense"
I'd expect that from Gordon or James, but certainly not Edward
9:22
Diesel 11
Edward said that?
I thought it was in Edward Strikes Out.
9:23
TGC Thomas
it was in both I think
Exward sure has a thing against cranes
*Edward
9:24
Frankthetriviaman
Yea, it was both
9:24
Diesel 11
He doesn't even look like an engine. ~is what he really said.
9:24
Frankthetriviaman
But Edward strikes out was 10 times worse
9:24
Diesel 11
Actually it's one of my favorites.
9:24
TGC Thomas
Now, another thing, Season 8. It was pretty bad, but we might find something good in it
wait what?
9:24
Diesel 11
I gotta go, be back in a little while.
9:25
TGC Thomas
Edward is completely OOC in it and-
So, what I was saying, should we check Season 8 just in case there is something good?
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9:27
TGC Thomas
Because I think there might be two or three episodes that aren't that bad
9:27
Frankthetriviaman
I think so; but should we finish with season five first?
9:28
TGC Thomas
maybe we should skim through it, most of it will be canon I'm sure
and by that I mean Season 5 and not 8 BTW
9:28
Frankthetriviaman
I know. Let me bring up the list again
9:29
TGC Thomas
I wonder if Toz and Tug will join us
9:30
Frankthetriviaman
Me too; I hope they come on
9:30
TGC Thomas
So Put Upon Percy is next I believe.
I'm starting now
9:31
Frankthetriviaman
the only two episodes I am concerned about are Rusty and the Boulder and Stepney Gets lost. Otherwise, I feel pretty good about making the rest canon
Put upon Percy I feel is canon, but I will wait for your thoughts
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9:36
TGC Thomas
I find it strange how of all cars out at the front S.C.ruffey was used
although it doesn't matter much
9:37
Frankthetriviaman
I think it was just a reused model, not SCRuffey himself
9:37
TGC Thomas
actually I think it was just SCRuffey's face on a random car
9:37
Frankthetriviaman
Exactly; they probably had it lying around and decided to reuse it
9:38
TGC Thomas
so, you mentioned Rusty and the Boulder and Stepney Gets Lost, let's deal with those now
9:39
Frankthetriviaman
I loved Rusty and the Boulder as a kid
9:39
TGC Thomas
since we need to speed up the process, and since you said you've watched Season 5 recently it will be good to skip some
9:39
Frankthetriviaman
But let's consider: What are the odds of a boulder being perfectly round like that
and just keep rolling like that at high speed
9:39
TGC Thomas
and how the Boulder magically went uphill and behind rusty
9:40
Frankthetriviaman
Perhaps it was a bad dream?
9:40
TGC Thomas
that would explain why it has a face
9:41
Frankthetriviaman
So perhaps it was canon, but it was a bad dream Rusty had
9:42
TGC Thomas
now all I can think about is Rusty waking up and then seeing Gordon with that same face later and flinching
9:42
Frankthetriviaman
I'm trying to picture that as well
9:43
TGC Thomas
so, Stepney Gets Lost, what is your problem with that, other than the fact that the Ironworks would definitely get sued
9:44
Frankthetriviaman
Going back to RWS taking priority.
If we assume the Bluebell line is where it is in real life
would the episode still work?
9:45
TGC Thomas
im trying to piece it together but I can't seem to, that's a very good point
it's too bad two of four episodes of the TVS with Stepney minus I think one in Season 12 that is definitely non-canon have to be considered Non-Canon even though they are good
9:46
Frankthetriviaman
Want to rewatch the episode?
9:47
TGC Thomas
I'm pretty sure we can just say Non-canon right here and now, it doesn't work with the eh RSS taking priority
9:47
Frankthetriviaman
Yes, but in turn, the excellent book Stepney the Bluebell engine is considered canon
Fair point. So let's review
Most episodes are canon, except for:
Stepney gets lost, because it doesn't work
Gordon and the Gremlin is undecided, we said we would have the others weigh in
9:49
TGC Thomas
and Snow and Rusty and the Boulder were imagined by Rusty, RATB being a dream and Snow just being a story
9:49
Frankthetriviaman
Shall I go update the page on the forum, or would you like to do it
?
9:50
TGC Thomas
i don't have the 3WSR tab opened so I guess you could
9:50
Frankthetriviaman
Ok, just give me a minute
Got it. On to season 6?
9:54
TGC Thomas
Let me get a playlist up
fun fact, Season 5 is the second most searched season on the Wiki, Season 6 is the second most searched on youtube
and on both Season 1 is the most searched
9:56
Frankthetriviaman
Ah, I see.
9:56
TGC Thomas
So, On to Salty's Secret!
9:57
Frankthetriviaman
Ready to watch it? I saw it a while back, so I am ready to discuss it when you are
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10:01
TGC Thomas
Test
10:02
Frankthetriviaman
yes?
10:02
TGC Thomas
i just watched it, not sure about how Mavis and B&B work in the same quarry now, but since there are so many episodes that say they do
we might have to adjust a little
10:02
Frankthetriviaman
Well, if we make the following assumptions, I think it would work
The wiki says Center Island Quarry is, in fact, Anopa Quarry where mavis works
Perhaps the Clay pits were closed, so the Anopa quarry asked the SCC for Bill and Ben on loan since Mavis couldn't handle the work herself
10:04
TGC Thomas
But it leaves a plot hole, who is working at the clay pits for those few days? BoCo couldn't handle that work by himself I'm sure
aiwait I read the front of your message
that makes sense
although it does leave a plot hole with all the other episodes where B&B are working at Anopa
10:05
Frankthetriviaman
Say, the clay pits were closed because a safety violation was found, that required prolong closure, and they were sent there for the time being
And all those episodes took place during this "prolonged closure"
would that work for now?
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10:06
TGC Thomas
That could make sense, it would also explain why BoCo was so far from the Clay Pits in some season 5 episodes
10:06
Frankthetriviaman
Hi D-11
We just wrapped up season 5 and are on season 6 now
10:06
Diesel 11
Hello!
10:07
TGC Thomas
and plus I just remembered Derek so even if you didn't make that explanation it might work out with only BoCo and Derek working there
10:08
Frankthetriviaman
Well Derek was sent away for repairs, if you recall
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10:08
Frankthetriviaman
So, we'll call Salty's Secret Canon, but with the following notes in mind
10:08
TGC Thomas
By Season 6 he could have been repaired, but it doesn't really matter with your Prolonged Closure idea
10:09
Frankthetriviaman
*Everything we just discussed
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10:09
Frankthetriviaman
ok, let me write all that down n the forum before I forget it
10:09
TGC Thomas
so, onto the next episode?
10:09
Frankthetriviaman
one minute
10:09
TGC Thomas
ok
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10:10
TGC Thomas
Frank's idea was that there was a safety Violation at the clay pits rendering them closed for a long period of time
and the owners of the clay pits loaned Bill and Ben to the Central Island quarry which explains why Bill and Ben were out of the clay pits for all of Season 6
10:12
Diesel 11
Interesting.
10:12
Frankthetriviaman
And Center Island Quarry, as explained by the Wiki, is in fact Anopa Quarry on Thomas' branch line where Mavis really works
As for BoCo and Derek; they are probably handling the freight work on the Wellsworth Branch
So TGC, onto Harvey to the Rescue, right?
10:14
TGC Thomas
we already rendered that Non-Canon because of OOC Edward
10:15
Diesel 11
Should we really render everything non-canon just because of a single character?
10:15
Frankthetriviaman
That may be a fair point... what if Edward was more "confused" than "being mean"
10:15
TGC Thomas
Harvey to the Rescue could still be debatable I suppose
but this doesn't mean we're debating Edward Strikes Out, Emily is OOC in that as well, and those flatbeds have to be made of Legos to break at that slow of a stop
10:16
Frankthetriviaman
TGC, want to watch the episode? If everything else is fine, maybe it can be canon after all
Agreed: Edward Strikes out- non canon
*Unless we like Rocky as a character, then we'll make it a bad dream
10:17
Diesel 11
3WSR is extremely convoluted. I don't know why we're even discussing whether episodes are canon or not.
10:18
TGC Thomas
I've watched it recently, if we can bypass Edward's slight OOC and call it confusion I think we can consider HTTR canon
and we can still use Rocky if we make ESO Non-canon, his arrival will just be a bit less explained
10:19
Frankthetriviaman
Fair enough; let me write it on the forum post before I forget
10:20
Diesel 11
3WSR is extremely convoluted. I don't know why we're even discussing whether episodes are canon or not. ~Diesel 11
10:21
TGC Thomas
We could possibly break up that convolution
10:21
Frankthetriviaman
exactly.
So next is...
No sleep for cranky
10:21
TGC Thomas
and we could just render this as finding which episodes are canon if we do other TTTE projects
so yea, No Sleep for Cranky
Start!
10:22
Frankthetriviaman
Same assumption for Bill and Ben being there
10:23
Diesel 11
Don't be surprised if I start using the episodes as canon...
10:23
Frankthetriviaman
The prolonged closure, they split their time between the docks and the quarry
10:23
Diesel 11
I honestly can't just get rid of them altogether in the story.
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10:23
Frankthetriviaman
exactly; for now we are trying to explain what happened "off screen" to explain certain things
If you see the canon discussion, we already explained season five; most of it is canon, we just explained a few episodes.
BTW- I wrote something for Thomas and the Tugs, perhaps it can set you up for Nantucket. What do you think?
10:26
Diesel 11
Sounds great.
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10:27
Diesel 11
Though I don't think we should have everything set in stone already; we need Toz and Tug's input too, and there are a few episodes which I myself haven't even given my thoughts on...
10:28
TGC Thomas
I don't have anything against No Sleep for Cranky, I'll say canon
10:29
Frankthetriviaman
Me neither, I think we just need my note on why Bill and Ben are at the docks
10:29
TGC Thomas
Plus Brendam is on Edward's branch line so it's excused either way
10:30
Frankthetriviaman
Agreed. So next is...
A bad day for Harold
10:31
TGC Thomas
I'm starting now
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10:36
TGC Thomas
Twst
10:36
Frankthetriviaman
So, thoughts TGC?
10:36
TGC Thomas
I don't see anything wrong with it
Actually I remembered a few episodes of Season 6 that should be non-canon
Dunkin Duncan and Rusty saves the day
10:38
Frankthetriviaman
I'm guessing Harold's pilot was new, and did not know how much Harold could really carry, and that is why he did not stop Harold
So with that note, I think it could work
10:38
TGC Thomas
that works
10:39
Diesel 11
Hey TGC, when The Great Race comes out in the States, do you want to help us review it for the blog?
10:39
Frankthetriviaman
I'll add that to the forum post; hold on
10:39
TGC Thomas
I won't be able to see it until it's brought to YT, Diesel 11
10:40
Frankthetriviaman
Next is Elizabeth the Vintage Quarry Truck
10:40
TGC Thomas
wait
10:41
Frankthetriviaman
Only problem I have with it is if Thomas' driver took Thomas to the docks, how did Elizabeth get to the docks with no one to drive her?
10:41
Diesel 11
Same here.
10:41
Frankthetriviaman
I've only found clips
10:41
Diesel 11
TGC.
10:41
Frankthetriviaman
I'd rather wait until it's out officially before giving an opinion
10:41
TGC Thomas
What is it D-11?
10:41
Diesel 11
I've been tempted to illegally download it...
10:42
Frankthetriviaman
Don't; you could get a virus
BTW D-11, I made a new post in LM; does it help?
10:43
TGC Thomas
never download it, always find a website that you don't have to sign up on to watch it, that's what i do
10:43
Diesel 11
And don't worry, I won't.
BTW TGC...
10:43
TGC Thomas
hmm?
10:43
Diesel 11
tugsfanforum.proboards.com
10:44
TGC Thomas
we don't need all these extra forums D-11, just merge that with the Thomas Fan Forum like I suggested when you first made that forum
10:45
Diesel 11
It's been up since January...
It's separate with the Thomas Fan Forum, that's dead, and will probably close soon if no one knew joins.
The TUGS Fan Forum I'm hoping will see some activity.
10:46
TGC Thomas
wait, random question
was Luc unbanned from the wiki forum?
10:46
Frankthetriviaman
Yea, he was
His posts are no longer censored
10:46
Diesel 11
Yeah, it only lasted until June / July.
He said so himself.
Before the incident.
10:46
Frankthetriviaman
He has not been around though; guess he lost interest
10:47
Diesel 11
Kinda miss him to be honest...
10:48
Frankthetriviaman
So TGC- thoughts on the next episode?
10:48
Diesel 11
Oh, Frank, I actually saw you in the list of 'people you might know' on Facebook.
10:48
Frankthetriviaman
Really? Well, that was lucky
10:48
TGC Thomas
I still have to watch it
10:49
Diesel 11
Probably since I looked you up some time ago.
10:49
TGC Thomas
yeah, most people you might know you don't know at all
10:49
Diesel 11
I know Frank!
10:50
TGC Thomas
So, I'm going to watch the episode now
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10:53
Diesel 11
Which episode?
10:54
Frankthetriviaman
Elizabeth the vintage Quarry truck
10:54
Diesel 11
Ah.
Canon.
10:54
Frankthetriviaman
Only one problem worth discussing, in my opinion
10:55
Diesel 11
What's that?
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10:55
TGC Thomas
Test
10:55
Frankthetriviaman
if Thomas' driver took Thomas to the docks, how did Elizabeth get to the docks with no one to drive her?
you're good TGC
10:55
Diesel 11
Huh?
10:55
Frankthetriviaman
I think TGC is making sure the chat works on his end
10:55
TGC Thomas
Diesel 11 is a clone of Frank confirmed
10:56
Diesel 11
No, you're point is what confused me.
Yup.
10:56
Frankthetriviaman
In the episode, After they've taken Elizabeth to get the parts to Thomas, they take off and get to the docks
When they get to the docks, Thomas is about to tell Hatt about how rude Elizabeth was
When she suddenly rolled up, yet there was no one to drive her when Thomas and his crew left
10:57
Diesel 11
Perhaps someone else took her? Like the fireman? Guard? I'll have to watch the episode.
10:57
TGC Thomas
that is a good point, and if Elizabeth was having trouble on a small hill she could most certainly not get to the docks
10:57
Frankthetriviaman
And no, Elizabeth does not have an A.P.S.
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10:58
TGC Thomas
I think we broke him
10:58
Frankthetriviaman
What if...
10:58
Diesel 11
Who?
Broke who?
10:58
TGC Thomas
You, with that APS comment
10:58
Diesel 11
Why?
10:58
Frankthetriviaman
Sorry, that's an In joke with me and D-11
10:59
TGC Thomas
Diesel 11 is a shape shifter confirmed
10:59
Diesel 11
NO TOUCHIN' ME DIESELS!
I'm suing Frank.
10:59
Frankthetriviaman
What did I do?
11:00
Diesel 11
Came up with a lot of Numbered Diesels history before I could wrap my head around it.
11:00
TGC Thomas
you stole a diesel and 2 wrenches
11:00
Diesel 11
Sometimes I feel like they're not my characters anymore.
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11:01
Diesel 11
Who stole a diesel?
11:01
Frankthetriviaman
You are free to render non-canon what ever you wish D-11; it is your call
11:01
TGC Thomas
Frank
and two wrenches
11:01
Diesel 11
There's so much implemented already though.
WHO'RE YOU CALLIN' A WRETCH?!
Oh wait, wrong word.
11:02
TGC Thomas
ill brb in a few minutes
11:02
Diesel 11
Okay.
11:02
Frankthetriviaman
I am sorry if anything upset you D-11; I won't touch them anymore, I respect they are your characters
11:02
Diesel 11
Nah, it's all good.
11:02
Frankthetriviaman
So I was proposing for the episode:
11:02
Diesel 11
I've gotten used to them now. You're still free to help out with them wherever you like.
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11:04
Frankthetriviaman
What happened was Elizabeth's owner (who owned the shed) came around, and ashed why she was out of it. So she explained, and asked to be taken to the docks. It was a rough journey, but she made it, and by chance, there was Hatt
Thanks D-11; they are your characters first though, so anything I write, you have final say on canon/non-canon
11:04
Diesel 11
I guess it would work.
The episode, I mean.
11:05
Frankthetriviaman
Thanks
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11:05
TGC Thomas
Test
11:05
Frankthetriviaman
So for example, my three most recent diesels stories: "At the Smelters Yard", "A new chance for Diesel 15" and the Diesel 9 book.
11:05
Diesel 11
Our headman is back!
11:06
Frankthetriviaman
You have final say on canon or not
Hi TGC
Finish the episode?
11:06
TGC Thomas
i didnt watch an episode I had to do something for a few minutes
11:06
Diesel 11
Yeah, they're canon. Except for Diesel 15's, I had something a little different in mind, though I doubt it'll crop up in the novel.
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11:07
Diesel 11
So anyways, like my display of avatars?
11:07
TGC Thomas
so, thinking about the canon debate, I think there are 3 episodes of Season 6 we should say are non-canon
yeah they are cool
11:08
Diesel 11
I don't know which one I'll stick with though, can't make up my fucking mind.
Though I do like my current one.
11:08
Frankthetriviaman
Well, recall Diesel 15, a new chance for diesel 15 doesn't actually feature him, it features Walkins
11:09
Diesel 11
"Call of the Wretched Sea" by Ahab.
11:09
Frankthetriviaman
Which episodes TGC?
11:09
Diesel 11
Yeah, I remember Frank.
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11:09
Diesel 11
But still, I had...
TOZ!!!
11:09
TGC Thomas
Thomas and the Jet Engine, Dunkin Duncan, and Rusty to the Rescue
11:09
Diesel 11
...something different in mind.
11:09
TGC Thomas
Hey Toz
11:09
Frankthetriviaman
So it is no longer Canon? Looking forward to seeing what you come with
11:09
Toz76
Hey all
11:09
Diesel 11
Sir Alan basically bought Diesel 15, so he had the right to sell him.
11:09
Toz76
What's not canon?
11:10
Diesel 11
"A New Chance For Diesel 15".
11:10
TGC Thomas
were just takk
11:10
Frankthetriviaman
Sorry, I should clarify
11:10
TGC Thomas
*talking about stuff
11:10
Diesel 11
And where's that bastard Tug?
11:10
Frankthetriviaman
It's not that Alan was asking Walkins for permission to sell
It's more like he was checking in to make sure Walkins was ok with the idea of sending 15 to Australia, since Walkins saw his diesels as family
I apologize for any confusion
11:11
Diesel 11
Yeah. It could go either way I guess.
11:11
Toz76
So what did I miss besides Diesel 15 stuff?
11:11
Diesel 11
Canon VS non-canon - Season 6
11:11
Frankthetriviaman
Yes; we are up to Elizabeth the vintage quarry truck
11:12
Diesel 11
And new avatars.
11:12
Toz76
That episode should be canon.
11:12
Frankthetriviaman
*So can new chance be canon now that that was cleared up D-11?
11:12
Diesel 11
All of them should be canon.
11:12
Frankthetriviaman
Yes, it is canon, with one note
11:12
TGC Thomas
so, I just suggested that Thomas and the Jet Engine, Dunkin Duncan, and Rusty saves the day (or something like that I don't remember the exact title) should be non-canon
11:12
Diesel 11
@frank, sure.
11:13
Frankthetriviaman
thanks
11:13
Toz76
Rusty saves the day, I agree, but what's wrong with the other two?
11:13
Frankthetriviaman
TGC- what is your argument?
11:13
TGC Thomas
and that is because Thomas and The Jet Engine contradicts Thomas and Gordon
11:13
Toz76
How so?
11:13
TGC Thomas
because as it is said in the episode "Thomas would like to go as fast as Gordon, just once"
or something like that
11:14
Frankthetriviaman
And as established in episode one
Thomas went as fasta s Gordon and hated it
*fast as
11:14
Diesel 11
Meaning under his own power.
11:14
TGC Thomas
in Thomas and the Jet engine he wasn't in control, the jet engine was
11:15
Frankthetriviaman
Plus, how could the jet have worked since it wasn't connected to a fuel source?
11:15
Diesel 11
Anyways guys. I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DRAG RACE! DIE!! I'm feeling very cynical tonight.
11:15
TGC Thomas
ok
*drags race across floor*
11:16
Diesel 11
You should get Nitro Type accounts, then we can race against each other. I'd win.
11:16
Toz76
Nearly 80 years had passed between Thomas and Gordon and Thomas and the Jet Engine. Perhaps Thomas learned to like high speeds somehow.
I can't explain the fuel thing, maybe it was a mistake by the deliverers?
11:17
TGC Thomas
woah, where do you get 80 years
from
11:17
Frankthetriviaman
*assuming the jet engine episode took place in the 90s
And Thomas and Gordon in the 1920s
11:17
Toz76
So 70 some years.
11:17
TGC Thomas
when was the Jet Engine invented?
11:18
Frankthetriviaman
1940s
11:18
Diesel 11
The 1920s. Bigg City Port was the biggest harbour in the world. It was a time of change and great opportunity. Nobody knew it better than the hard-working tugs, whose strength and big hearts made them popular with everybody from tramp steamers to ocean liners. Important jobs in the port often kept them working night and day. My tugs, the Star Fleet were no exception. I had three harbour tugs: OJ, a paddle-steamer. Warrior and Big Mac. A railway tug, Top Hat. One little switcher, Ten Cents. And Hercules, my ocean-going tug. They were a good crew, striving to be the best in the port. Not always succeeding, but proud of their work. I remember the day we got our first big break. It started like most, at dawn.
11:18
Frankthetriviaman
The Me-262 was a late WWII German fighter jet
11:18
TGC Thomas
so it wasn't necisarrily 70 years, it could have been 50 or so
11:19
Diesel 11
Screw canon!
11:19
Toz76
Still, I don't see why we should condemn that episode when there are so many worse ones out there.
11:19
TGC Thomas
because there isn't a canon date for when Season 6 takes place
11:19
Frankthetriviaman
We could compromise
What if this story was being told in flashback
And Thomas was being cheeky and exaggerated what happened
Diesel 11 has left the chat.
11:20
Toz76
I like it. Maybe he was terrified at the time, but acted brave to tease Gordon.
11:20
TGC Thomas
that sort of makes sense
11:21
Toz76
Let me look up Dunkin Duncan, I don't remember it.
Diesel 11 has joined the chat.
11:21
Diesel 11
Duncan on incline.
OH NO!
11:21
Frankthetriviaman
Ok, so, something happened, like maybe there was some fuel in the jet engine by accident
11:21
Diesel 11
*Plunge*
It's awesome.
One of me faves.
11:22
Frankthetriviaman
and *something* did happen, but the story we see is Thomas telling an exaggerated account
11:22
Toz76
What's wrong with Dunkin Duncan?
11:22
TGC Thomas
so, now for the other two I suggest should be non canon, Dunkin Duncan and Rusty saves the day contradict Season 4 as in those episodes Duncan still has something against Rusty
even though that was resolved back in season 4
11:22
Frankthetriviaman
Fair point.
11:22
Toz76
I think most episodes cam be classed as "exaggerations" for the sake of canon.
11:22
Diesel 11
Duncan was always was a bastard. I don't see what's wrong.
He was rude to the others, too.
11:23
Toz76
Yeah, Duncan was just being rude about Rusty's planned gender reassignment surgery.
11:23
Frankthetriviaman
A certain episodes we are saying were either stories, or bad dreams; if you see the canon interpretation thread on the forum,you'll see what we are doing
11:23
Diesel 11
He's not caught up in the times, I guess.
11:23
Toz76
Or exaggerations meant to mock other engines.
11:24
TGC Thomas
and that surgery for the massive face he already had
11:24
Diesel 11
Though Muck from BTB is the most confusing character. SHE'S A DAMN GIRL! GET IT STRAIGHT!!
Of course, I grew up in the US of A.
Not Britain.
BUT STILL.
It's confusing.
Confuzzling.
11:25
TGC Thomas
let's keep on topic here
11:25
Diesel 11
You get the picture.
Are we ever on topic?
THAT IS THE QUESTION.
11:25
Toz76
Can we talk about Edward Strikes Out? Because I actually have a justification for it.
11:25
Frankthetriviaman
So for the jet engine episode, I put down that it is canon, but what we saw was an exaggerated account, being told by thomas in flashback
11:26
Toz76
Agreed.
11:26
Diesel 11
YES! Tell us, Toz. I love that episode.
11:26
Frankthetriviaman
TGC and I consider Edward Strikes out non-canon, but I am curious, go ahead
11:26
Diesel 11
And sure, Frank.
11:26
Toz76
That's the Rocky introduction one, right? Just making sure I remembered the title right,
11:26
TGC Thomas
Yeah
11:26
Frankthetriviaman
yes
11:26
Diesel 11
I absolutely adore the New Series... anyways, go ahead..
11:27
Frankthetriviaman
Oh, next is The Fogman, when we get back to season 6
11:28
TGC Thomas
this is the problem with chatting through text
you can't see what they a saying as they type
11:28
Frankthetriviaman
It is problematic, but Im sure over time we get used to it
11:28
Diesel 11
That's why you should come to our live chats.
11:28
Toz76
So, Edward had some trauma in the past involving a crane, and ever since he's been irrationally opposed to all forms of cranes. Just watch Harvey and Cranky's introduction episodes.
11:29
Diesel 11
Huh, makes sense.
11:29
Toz76
He wasn't on his own branch line for the new crane's arrival.
Normally he'd be all over the new faces.
Come to think of it, I don't think he interacted with Jerome and Judy in TAB. MORE PROOF??
11:30
TGC Thomas
whixh
11:30
Toz76
Cranky
11:30
TGC Thomas
*which we rendered non-canon anyways but it fits
11:30
Toz76
We did? Why?
11:30
Frankthetriviaman
We established that when the RWS and TV series contradict
11:30
TGC Thomas
the Railway Series takes priority over the TVS, we established that
11:30
Frankthetriviaman
RWS takes priority
11:30
Diesel 11
You weren't hear, TGC and Frank started rendering everything with a tiny incident non-canon...
11:31
Frankthetriviaman
Well, not everything, but we did come up with good explanations to save certain episodes
Like why Bill and Ben weren't in the clay pits in season 6
11:32
Toz76
Still, there's no contradiction if we assume Jerome and Judy exist, because I can think of only one time Edward used the Breakdown Train in the Classic Series. He still can have an irrational fear of it.
11:32
Frankthetriviaman
I suppose that is possible, but there are still two major problems that I can identify with the episode
11:32
Toz76
I mean, he's all-loving, but it seems like whenever cranes are involved, he's either cruel or absent.
11:33
Frankthetriviaman
If Harvey has no problem lifting Percy, there is no reason for him to be wheezing over lifting a single pipe
11:33
Toz76
What are they?
11:33
Frankthetriviaman
And apparently, those flatbeds were made of legos
11:33
Toz76
How is that second one a problem?
11:34
Frankthetriviaman
TGC mentioned it earlier; the way the flatbeds broke
11:34
Toz76
Only direct contradictions/ooc moments should be grounds for non-canon status.
11:34
TGC Thomas
flatbeds should be more durable than the Lego X Wing
11:35
Toz76
We don't know how hard the crash was. Small things like that don't burn all Awdry holds dear.
11:35
Frankthetriviaman
As for the Adventure begins; it is canon when it comes to where it blends very with the RWS. Which is actually a good 95% of the special
11:35
Diesel 11
Honestly, this canon talk is driving me insane...
11:35
TGC Thomas
i guess that's true, but the Harvey Point still stands
11:35
Diesel 11
I'm gone.
11:35
Frankthetriviaman
Fair point
11:36
Toz76
Was Harvey overdo for an overhaul?
11:36
Frankthetriviaman
Sorry D-11; didn't mean to cause any problems
11:36
TGC Thomas
even if he was 1 pipe would be no problem
Diesel 11 has left the chat.
11:37
Toz76
I don't think it's a big enough inconsistency to discount the episode, especially considering it fits so well with the Edward and cranes thing.
11:37
Frankthetriviaman
Well, let me try and summarize everything.
11:37
Toz76
I agree it's odd, but when has he been able to lift engines other than that one time?
Maybe that episode is the error.
11:38
Frankthetriviaman
So we can make Edward Strikes out work if we assume the following:
Diesel 11 has joined the chat.
11:39
Frankthetriviaman
Edward has a deep fear/hatred of cranes due to a trauma he suffered long ago
11:39
Diesel 11
I feel like destroying somethings.
Like a glass house.
Watch it break.
11:39
Frankthetriviaman
Harvey had trouble with the pipes because he hadn't been properly maintained (lazy crew), and due for cleaning
11:39
Diesel 11
Or beer bottles.
11:40
Toz76
Yep.
D11, you okay?
11:40
Diesel 11
Nope.
11:40
Frankthetriviaman
And The flatbeds- what if there was a mix up at the yard, and Edward ended up accidentally taking some with "rotten wood, rusty frames"
*cough cough Scruffey
11:40
Toz76
Agreed.
11:41
Frankthetriviaman
TGC- that good for you?
11:41
Diesel 11
What does S. C. Ruffey have to do with this again?
11:41
TGC Thomas
"maybe if we put you back together you'll earn yourself a better-" yeah that works
it was just a reference Diesel 11
11:41
Diesel 11
He's a fave of mine.
TGCalt Oh.
11:41
Frankthetriviaman
He was pulled apart because of "rotten wood, rusty frames"
11:41
Toz76
And died in the RWS
11:42
Frankthetriviaman
"unserviceable from the start"
11:42
Diesel 11
Rebuilt in the TV Series... I'd love to see what he's up to now.
11:42
Frankthetriviaman
So we said RWS takes priority. However, anyone in favor of granting S.C. Ruffey exception?
11:43
TGC Thomas
I don't see a problem with giving him an exception
11:44
Frankthetriviaman
Toz, D-11?
11:44
Toz76
Sure, why not.
11:45
Frankthetriviaman
The motion is passed, S.C. Ruffey is granted exception in 3WSR
So, to get back on track, with season 6
Next episode is The Fogman
11:47
Toz76
Canon
11:47
TGC Thomas
I've seen it recently, I say canon
11:47
Frankthetriviaman
TGC, you want to watch it, or do you want to just discuss it
Beat me to it; ok, it's canon
11:47
Diesel 11
Yes, he's an exception to us all.
11:48
TGC Thomas
a bit late there Diesel 11
11:48
Frankthetriviaman
Next is Jack jumps in and a Friend in Need
11:48
Toz76
๐
11:48
Frankthetriviaman
*Counting both together since they can be considered a two parter
11:48
Toz76
Canon
11:48
TGC Thomas
ive seen them many times over, canon
speaking of which, should The Pack mini series be canon?
11:49
Frankthetriviaman
Well, I say canon, but only if we assume that their crews share similar personalities to which vehicles they drive. That would explain why that dump truck drove so dangerously in the first part
11:50
Toz76
Yes, but Cronk Station as it appears there should be assumed to be a different one from the real Cronk Station, Cronk being a major main line town
11:50
Frankthetriviaman
To explain why they do things that aren't normally considered "safe" at a construction site
Perhaps that was an older Cronk station, built on the ouskirts of town?
11:51
Diesel 11
Canon.
11:52
TGC Thomas
actually I have a question, will we lightly skim through seasons 9-12 and skip 13-16 altogether or just skip 9-16?
11:52
Frankthetriviaman
yea; there's no saving 13-16
11:53
Diesel 11
But I adore Seasons 8-11. And Season 12 isn't half-bad.
11:53
Frankthetriviaman
8-12... I'm willing to give a chance. How about you TGC?
11:53
Diesel 11
Oh wow, my pastor is still online.
11:53
Toz76
Satan speaks at midnight...
11:54
TGC Thomas
im the one who asked the question in the first place, but I say we just skip 13-16 and give 9-12 a chance
11:54
Toz76
Agreed on S8-12
11:54
Frankthetriviaman
Toz- you ok with that explanation; the Cronk we saw in those episodes was an older station on the outskirts of town
?
11:54
Toz76
S13-15 can die in a hole of exaggeration and dreams.
I'm okay with it.
11:54
Frankthetriviaman
One second
11:55
Toz76
They say S 16 isn't too bad, though, but IDK.
11:55
TGC Thomas
and 16 Toz, Andrew Brenner only helped for BMM and not season 16
11:55
Diesel 11
16 is bad.
11:55
Toz76
I say all new character introductions should stay canon for continuity's sake, even if it sucks.
11:55
Diesel 11
But 15 was fucking awful.
11:56
Frankthetriviaman
How about a compromise
11:56
Diesel 11
Though there were a couple exceptions.
11:56
Frankthetriviaman
Sorry, fell a couple points behind, nevermind
So, the next episode is It's only snow
11:57
TGC Thomas
the introduction of the holiday known as Windter
*Winter Holiday
11:58
Diesel 11
Can we take a break from the canon discussion and play a game or something? My heads about to crash.
11:58
TGC Thomas
i have to go off in a few minutes actually
11:58
Frankthetriviaman
So not canon then? I think we can all agree that "winter holiday" was one of the worst things to come out of the dark era
11:59
Diesel 11
Exactly. Fuck you, it's Christmas!
Though actually, it came about during Season 6.
11:59
Frankthetriviaman
*We are on season 6
11:59
Diesel 11
"It's Only Snow"..
11:59
TGC Thomas
if we just make a small change and replace "Winter Holiday" with Christmas it's fine.
12:00
Frankthetriviaman
I suppose; does the episode still hold up when we replace "Winter holiday" with "christmas?"
12:00
Diesel 11
There I was completely wasted, out of work and down All inside it's so frustrating as I drift from town to town Feel as though nobody cares if I live or die So I might as well begin to put some action in my life Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law So much for the golden future I can't even start I've had every promise broken, there's anger in my heart You don't know what it's like, you don't have a clue If you did you'd find yourselves doing the same thing too Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law You don't know what it's like Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law
12:01
TGC Thomas
breaking the law by flooding the chat
12:01
Diesel 11
12:01
TGC Thomas
anwyas I have to go for tonight
12:01
Diesel 11
Alright, see you TGC!
Toz76 has left the chat.
12:02
Frankthetriviaman
good night TGC;
So we'll pick up with this next time you want to continue it?
*It's only snow
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12:04
Diesel 11
Let's play a game!
12:04
Frankthetriviaman
what can we play?
12:04
Diesel 11
Obscure Reference, Song Battle, etc.
Only a lot faster.
Toz76 has joined the chat.
12:06
Frankthetriviaman
hi Toz
12:06
Diesel 11
Toz, what game do you want to play?
12:07
Frankthetriviaman
You didn't miss much; we decided to pick up with It's only snow next time TGC will talk about canon\
But anyway, it's game time now
12:07
Diesel 11
So, what shall it be?
12:07
Toz76
I don't have an issue with Winter Holiday. It's not an actual thing, they just said "the winter holidays". So Hanukkah, Christmas, etc
IDK on the game.
8:54
Diesel 11
Hi.
8:56
Frankthetriviaman
I have an idea for a scene in Thomas and the Tugs; can you just give me a few minutes to write it?
8:56
Diesel 11
Sure.
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9:09
TGC Thomas
I'm here now!
9:10
Diesel 11
Hi TGC!
9:10
TGC Thomas
So, I think we should talk about the canon debate and one episode in particular, Snow.
I've noticed that a lot of people don't like it and I feel we should deal with it before other stuff
9:11
Diesel 11
I'd consider it canon.
9:12
TGC Thomas
I'm going to find a blog post that Donald
*DonaldDouglasAndToby6 wrote
jesus I can't type right now
wait actually I think Blog Posts were removed from the TTTE Wiki
9:13
Diesel 11
Yeah, they were.
9:13
TGC Thomas
Wow, first the chat and then blog posts
9:14
Diesel 11
They've been gone for a long time, though.
9:14
TGC Thomas
I don't usually go on the wiki, and if I do I go to check a thing then leave
9:15
Diesel 11
Usually the same for me, though I'm on the forum quite often.
9:16
Frankthetriviaman
Oh hey TGC; how's it going.
*Sorry, I was writing
9:17
TGC Thomas
I'm just looking for a review on Season 5's Snow as a lot of people don't like it I've seen.
i found this thomasfriendsreviews.blogspot.com/2012/12/s5-ep25-snow.html
9:18
Diesel 11
Huh, interesting.
9:18
TGC Thomas
The review seems quite harsh but it has some points
9:18
Frankthetriviaman
Ah yes, I remember that one. it had a good action sequence if I recall, but that is a fair point
Perhaps we should consider it a bad dream Skarloey had... or perhaps a story Rusty simply made up for Thomas?
9:19
TGC Thomas
The second one might work
So, Frank, we got some Season 7 Episodes you didn't like in the last chat, what about Season 6?
9:21
Frankthetriviaman
I'd have to go back and review it
harvey to the rescue, since Edward was OOC
"He's just a bunch of new fangled nonsense"
I'd expect that from Gordon or James, but certainly not Edward
9:22
Diesel 11
Edward said that?
I thought it was in Edward Strikes Out.
9:23
TGC Thomas
it was in both I think
Exward sure has a thing against cranes
*Edward
9:24
Frankthetriviaman
Yea, it was both
9:24
Diesel 11
He doesn't even look like an engine. ~is what he really said.
9:24
Frankthetriviaman
But Edward strikes out was 10 times worse
9:24
Diesel 11
Actually it's one of my favorites.
9:24
TGC Thomas
Now, another thing, Season 8. It was pretty bad, but we might find something good in it
wait what?
9:24
Diesel 11
I gotta go, be back in a little while.
9:25
TGC Thomas
Edward is completely OOC in it and-
So, what I was saying, should we check Season 8 just in case there is something good?
Diesel 11 has left the chat.
9:27
TGC Thomas
Because I think there might be two or three episodes that aren't that bad
9:27
Frankthetriviaman
I think so; but should we finish with season five first?
9:28
TGC Thomas
maybe we should skim through it, most of it will be canon I'm sure
and by that I mean Season 5 and not 8 BTW
9:28
Frankthetriviaman
I know. Let me bring up the list again
9:29
TGC Thomas
I wonder if Toz and Tug will join us
9:30
Frankthetriviaman
Me too; I hope they come on
9:30
TGC Thomas
So Put Upon Percy is next I believe.
I'm starting now
9:31
Frankthetriviaman
the only two episodes I am concerned about are Rusty and the Boulder and Stepney Gets lost. Otherwise, I feel pretty good about making the rest canon
Put upon Percy I feel is canon, but I will wait for your thoughts
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9:36
TGC Thomas
I find it strange how of all cars out at the front S.C.ruffey was used
although it doesn't matter much
9:37
Frankthetriviaman
I think it was just a reused model, not SCRuffey himself
9:37
TGC Thomas
actually I think it was just SCRuffey's face on a random car
9:37
Frankthetriviaman
Exactly; they probably had it lying around and decided to reuse it
9:38
TGC Thomas
so, you mentioned Rusty and the Boulder and Stepney Gets Lost, let's deal with those now
9:39
Frankthetriviaman
I loved Rusty and the Boulder as a kid
9:39
TGC Thomas
since we need to speed up the process, and since you said you've watched Season 5 recently it will be good to skip some
9:39
Frankthetriviaman
But let's consider: What are the odds of a boulder being perfectly round like that
and just keep rolling like that at high speed
9:39
TGC Thomas
and how the Boulder magically went uphill and behind rusty
9:40
Frankthetriviaman
Perhaps it was a bad dream?
9:40
TGC Thomas
that would explain why it has a face
9:41
Frankthetriviaman
So perhaps it was canon, but it was a bad dream Rusty had
9:42
TGC Thomas
now all I can think about is Rusty waking up and then seeing Gordon with that same face later and flinching
9:42
Frankthetriviaman
I'm trying to picture that as well
9:43
TGC Thomas
so, Stepney Gets Lost, what is your problem with that, other than the fact that the Ironworks would definitely get sued
9:44
Frankthetriviaman
Going back to RWS taking priority.
If we assume the Bluebell line is where it is in real life
would the episode still work?
9:45
TGC Thomas
im trying to piece it together but I can't seem to, that's a very good point
it's too bad two of four episodes of the TVS with Stepney minus I think one in Season 12 that is definitely non-canon have to be considered Non-Canon even though they are good
9:46
Frankthetriviaman
Want to rewatch the episode?
9:47
TGC Thomas
I'm pretty sure we can just say Non-canon right here and now, it doesn't work with the eh RSS taking priority
9:47
Frankthetriviaman
Yes, but in turn, the excellent book Stepney the Bluebell engine is considered canon
Fair point. So let's review
Most episodes are canon, except for:
Stepney gets lost, because it doesn't work
Gordon and the Gremlin is undecided, we said we would have the others weigh in
9:49
TGC Thomas
and Snow and Rusty and the Boulder were imagined by Rusty, RATB being a dream and Snow just being a story
9:49
Frankthetriviaman
Shall I go update the page on the forum, or would you like to do it
?
9:50
TGC Thomas
i don't have the 3WSR tab opened so I guess you could
9:50
Frankthetriviaman
Ok, just give me a minute
Got it. On to season 6?
9:54
TGC Thomas
Let me get a playlist up
fun fact, Season 5 is the second most searched season on the Wiki, Season 6 is the second most searched on youtube
and on both Season 1 is the most searched
9:56
Frankthetriviaman
Ah, I see.
9:56
TGC Thomas
So, On to Salty's Secret!
9:57
Frankthetriviaman
Ready to watch it? I saw it a while back, so I am ready to discuss it when you are
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10:01
TGC Thomas
Test
10:02
Frankthetriviaman
yes?
10:02
TGC Thomas
i just watched it, not sure about how Mavis and B&B work in the same quarry now, but since there are so many episodes that say they do
we might have to adjust a little
10:02
Frankthetriviaman
Well, if we make the following assumptions, I think it would work
The wiki says Center Island Quarry is, in fact, Anopa Quarry where mavis works
Perhaps the Clay pits were closed, so the Anopa quarry asked the SCC for Bill and Ben on loan since Mavis couldn't handle the work herself
10:04
TGC Thomas
But it leaves a plot hole, who is working at the clay pits for those few days? BoCo couldn't handle that work by himself I'm sure
aiwait I read the front of your message
that makes sense
although it does leave a plot hole with all the other episodes where B&B are working at Anopa
10:05
Frankthetriviaman
Say, the clay pits were closed because a safety violation was found, that required prolong closure, and they were sent there for the time being
And all those episodes took place during this "prolonged closure"
would that work for now?
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10:06
TGC Thomas
That could make sense, it would also explain why BoCo was so far from the Clay Pits in some season 5 episodes
10:06
Frankthetriviaman
Hi D-11
We just wrapped up season 5 and are on season 6 now
10:06
Diesel 11
Hello!
10:07
TGC Thomas
and plus I just remembered Derek so even if you didn't make that explanation it might work out with only BoCo and Derek working there
10:08
Frankthetriviaman
Well Derek was sent away for repairs, if you recall
Diesel 11 has left the chat.
10:08
Frankthetriviaman
So, we'll call Salty's Secret Canon, but with the following notes in mind
10:08
TGC Thomas
By Season 6 he could have been repaired, but it doesn't really matter with your Prolonged Closure idea
10:09
Frankthetriviaman
*Everything we just discussed
Diesel 11 has joined the chat.
10:09
Frankthetriviaman
ok, let me write all that down n the forum before I forget it
10:09
TGC Thomas
so, onto the next episode?
10:09
Frankthetriviaman
one minute
10:09
TGC Thomas
ok
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10:10
TGC Thomas
Frank's idea was that there was a safety Violation at the clay pits rendering them closed for a long period of time
and the owners of the clay pits loaned Bill and Ben to the Central Island quarry which explains why Bill and Ben were out of the clay pits for all of Season 6
10:12
Diesel 11
Interesting.
10:12
Frankthetriviaman
And Center Island Quarry, as explained by the Wiki, is in fact Anopa Quarry on Thomas' branch line where Mavis really works
As for BoCo and Derek; they are probably handling the freight work on the Wellsworth Branch
So TGC, onto Harvey to the Rescue, right?
10:14
TGC Thomas
we already rendered that Non-Canon because of OOC Edward
10:15
Diesel 11
Should we really render everything non-canon just because of a single character?
10:15
Frankthetriviaman
That may be a fair point... what if Edward was more "confused" than "being mean"
10:15
TGC Thomas
Harvey to the Rescue could still be debatable I suppose
but this doesn't mean we're debating Edward Strikes Out, Emily is OOC in that as well, and those flatbeds have to be made of Legos to break at that slow of a stop
10:16
Frankthetriviaman
TGC, want to watch the episode? If everything else is fine, maybe it can be canon after all
Agreed: Edward Strikes out- non canon
*Unless we like Rocky as a character, then we'll make it a bad dream
10:17
Diesel 11
3WSR is extremely convoluted. I don't know why we're even discussing whether episodes are canon or not.
10:18
TGC Thomas
I've watched it recently, if we can bypass Edward's slight OOC and call it confusion I think we can consider HTTR canon
and we can still use Rocky if we make ESO Non-canon, his arrival will just be a bit less explained
10:19
Frankthetriviaman
Fair enough; let me write it on the forum post before I forget
10:20
Diesel 11
3WSR is extremely convoluted. I don't know why we're even discussing whether episodes are canon or not. ~Diesel 11
10:21
TGC Thomas
We could possibly break up that convolution
10:21
Frankthetriviaman
exactly.
So next is...
No sleep for cranky
10:21
TGC Thomas
and we could just render this as finding which episodes are canon if we do other TTTE projects
so yea, No Sleep for Cranky
Start!
10:22
Frankthetriviaman
Same assumption for Bill and Ben being there
10:23
Diesel 11
Don't be surprised if I start using the episodes as canon...
10:23
Frankthetriviaman
The prolonged closure, they split their time between the docks and the quarry
10:23
Diesel 11
I honestly can't just get rid of them altogether in the story.
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10:23
Frankthetriviaman
exactly; for now we are trying to explain what happened "off screen" to explain certain things
If you see the canon discussion, we already explained season five; most of it is canon, we just explained a few episodes.
BTW- I wrote something for Thomas and the Tugs, perhaps it can set you up for Nantucket. What do you think?
10:26
Diesel 11
Sounds great.
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10:27
Diesel 11
Though I don't think we should have everything set in stone already; we need Toz and Tug's input too, and there are a few episodes which I myself haven't even given my thoughts on...
10:28
TGC Thomas
I don't have anything against No Sleep for Cranky, I'll say canon
10:29
Frankthetriviaman
Me neither, I think we just need my note on why Bill and Ben are at the docks
10:29
TGC Thomas
Plus Brendam is on Edward's branch line so it's excused either way
10:30
Frankthetriviaman
Agreed. So next is...
A bad day for Harold
10:31
TGC Thomas
I'm starting now
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10:36
TGC Thomas
Twst
10:36
Frankthetriviaman
So, thoughts TGC?
10:36
TGC Thomas
I don't see anything wrong with it
Actually I remembered a few episodes of Season 6 that should be non-canon
Dunkin Duncan and Rusty saves the day
10:38
Frankthetriviaman
I'm guessing Harold's pilot was new, and did not know how much Harold could really carry, and that is why he did not stop Harold
So with that note, I think it could work
10:38
TGC Thomas
that works
10:39
Diesel 11
Hey TGC, when The Great Race comes out in the States, do you want to help us review it for the blog?
10:39
Frankthetriviaman
I'll add that to the forum post; hold on
10:39
TGC Thomas
I won't be able to see it until it's brought to YT, Diesel 11
10:40
Frankthetriviaman
Next is Elizabeth the Vintage Quarry Truck
10:40
TGC Thomas
wait
10:41
Frankthetriviaman
Only problem I have with it is if Thomas' driver took Thomas to the docks, how did Elizabeth get to the docks with no one to drive her?
10:41
Diesel 11
Same here.
10:41
Frankthetriviaman
I've only found clips
10:41
Diesel 11
TGC.
10:41
Frankthetriviaman
I'd rather wait until it's out officially before giving an opinion
10:41
TGC Thomas
What is it D-11?
10:41
Diesel 11
I've been tempted to illegally download it...
10:42
Frankthetriviaman
Don't; you could get a virus
BTW D-11, I made a new post in LM; does it help?
10:43
TGC Thomas
never download it, always find a website that you don't have to sign up on to watch it, that's what i do
10:43
Diesel 11
And don't worry, I won't.
BTW TGC...
10:43
TGC Thomas
hmm?
10:43
Diesel 11
tugsfanforum.proboards.com
10:44
TGC Thomas
we don't need all these extra forums D-11, just merge that with the Thomas Fan Forum like I suggested when you first made that forum
10:45
Diesel 11
It's been up since January...
It's separate with the Thomas Fan Forum, that's dead, and will probably close soon if no one knew joins.
The TUGS Fan Forum I'm hoping will see some activity.
10:46
TGC Thomas
wait, random question
was Luc unbanned from the wiki forum?
10:46
Frankthetriviaman
Yea, he was
His posts are no longer censored
10:46
Diesel 11
Yeah, it only lasted until June / July.
He said so himself.
Before the incident.
10:46
Frankthetriviaman
He has not been around though; guess he lost interest
10:47
Diesel 11
Kinda miss him to be honest...
10:48
Frankthetriviaman
So TGC- thoughts on the next episode?
10:48
Diesel 11
Oh, Frank, I actually saw you in the list of 'people you might know' on Facebook.
10:48
Frankthetriviaman
Really? Well, that was lucky
10:48
TGC Thomas
I still have to watch it
10:49
Diesel 11
Probably since I looked you up some time ago.
10:49
TGC Thomas
yeah, most people you might know you don't know at all
10:49
Diesel 11
I know Frank!
10:50
TGC Thomas
So, I'm going to watch the episode now
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10:53
Diesel 11
Which episode?
10:54
Frankthetriviaman
Elizabeth the vintage Quarry truck
10:54
Diesel 11
Ah.
Canon.
10:54
Frankthetriviaman
Only one problem worth discussing, in my opinion
10:55
Diesel 11
What's that?
TGC Thomas has joined the chat.
10:55
TGC Thomas
Test
10:55
Frankthetriviaman
if Thomas' driver took Thomas to the docks, how did Elizabeth get to the docks with no one to drive her?
you're good TGC
10:55
Diesel 11
Huh?
10:55
Frankthetriviaman
I think TGC is making sure the chat works on his end
10:55
TGC Thomas
Diesel 11 is a clone of Frank confirmed
10:56
Diesel 11
No, you're point is what confused me.
Yup.
10:56
Frankthetriviaman
In the episode, After they've taken Elizabeth to get the parts to Thomas, they take off and get to the docks
When they get to the docks, Thomas is about to tell Hatt about how rude Elizabeth was
When she suddenly rolled up, yet there was no one to drive her when Thomas and his crew left
10:57
Diesel 11
Perhaps someone else took her? Like the fireman? Guard? I'll have to watch the episode.
10:57
TGC Thomas
that is a good point, and if Elizabeth was having trouble on a small hill she could most certainly not get to the docks
10:57
Frankthetriviaman
And no, Elizabeth does not have an A.P.S.
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10:58
TGC Thomas
I think we broke him
10:58
Frankthetriviaman
What if...
10:58
Diesel 11
Who?
Broke who?
10:58
TGC Thomas
You, with that APS comment
10:58
Diesel 11
Why?
10:58
Frankthetriviaman
Sorry, that's an In joke with me and D-11
10:59
TGC Thomas
Diesel 11 is a shape shifter confirmed
10:59
Diesel 11
NO TOUCHIN' ME DIESELS!
I'm suing Frank.
10:59
Frankthetriviaman
What did I do?
11:00
Diesel 11
Came up with a lot of Numbered Diesels history before I could wrap my head around it.
11:00
TGC Thomas
you stole a diesel and 2 wrenches
11:00
Diesel 11
Sometimes I feel like they're not my characters anymore.
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11:01
Diesel 11
Who stole a diesel?
11:01
Frankthetriviaman
You are free to render non-canon what ever you wish D-11; it is your call
11:01
TGC Thomas
Frank
and two wrenches
11:01
Diesel 11
There's so much implemented already though.
WHO'RE YOU CALLIN' A WRETCH?!
Oh wait, wrong word.
11:02
TGC Thomas
ill brb in a few minutes
11:02
Diesel 11
Okay.
11:02
Frankthetriviaman
I am sorry if anything upset you D-11; I won't touch them anymore, I respect they are your characters
11:02
Diesel 11
Nah, it's all good.
11:02
Frankthetriviaman
So I was proposing for the episode:
11:02
Diesel 11
I've gotten used to them now. You're still free to help out with them wherever you like.
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11:04
Frankthetriviaman
What happened was Elizabeth's owner (who owned the shed) came around, and ashed why she was out of it. So she explained, and asked to be taken to the docks. It was a rough journey, but she made it, and by chance, there was Hatt
Thanks D-11; they are your characters first though, so anything I write, you have final say on canon/non-canon
11:04
Diesel 11
I guess it would work.
The episode, I mean.
11:05
Frankthetriviaman
Thanks
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11:05
TGC Thomas
Test
11:05
Frankthetriviaman
So for example, my three most recent diesels stories: "At the Smelters Yard", "A new chance for Diesel 15" and the Diesel 9 book.
11:05
Diesel 11
Our headman is back!
11:06
Frankthetriviaman
You have final say on canon or not
Hi TGC
Finish the episode?
11:06
TGC Thomas
i didnt watch an episode I had to do something for a few minutes
11:06
Diesel 11
Yeah, they're canon. Except for Diesel 15's, I had something a little different in mind, though I doubt it'll crop up in the novel.
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11:07
Diesel 11
So anyways, like my display of avatars?
11:07
TGC Thomas
so, thinking about the canon debate, I think there are 3 episodes of Season 6 we should say are non-canon
yeah they are cool
11:08
Diesel 11
I don't know which one I'll stick with though, can't make up my fucking mind.
Though I do like my current one.
11:08
Frankthetriviaman
Well, recall Diesel 15, a new chance for diesel 15 doesn't actually feature him, it features Walkins
11:09
Diesel 11
"Call of the Wretched Sea" by Ahab.
11:09
Frankthetriviaman
Which episodes TGC?
11:09
Diesel 11
Yeah, I remember Frank.
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11:09
Diesel 11
But still, I had...
TOZ!!!
11:09
TGC Thomas
Thomas and the Jet Engine, Dunkin Duncan, and Rusty to the Rescue
11:09
Diesel 11
...something different in mind.
11:09
TGC Thomas
Hey Toz
11:09
Frankthetriviaman
So it is no longer Canon? Looking forward to seeing what you come with
11:09
Toz76
Hey all
11:09
Diesel 11
Sir Alan basically bought Diesel 15, so he had the right to sell him.
11:09
Toz76
What's not canon?
11:10
Diesel 11
"A New Chance For Diesel 15".
11:10
TGC Thomas
were just takk
11:10
Frankthetriviaman
Sorry, I should clarify
11:10
TGC Thomas
*talking about stuff
11:10
Diesel 11
And where's that bastard Tug?
11:10
Frankthetriviaman
It's not that Alan was asking Walkins for permission to sell
It's more like he was checking in to make sure Walkins was ok with the idea of sending 15 to Australia, since Walkins saw his diesels as family
I apologize for any confusion
11:11
Diesel 11
Yeah. It could go either way I guess.
11:11
Toz76
So what did I miss besides Diesel 15 stuff?
11:11
Diesel 11
Canon VS non-canon - Season 6
11:11
Frankthetriviaman
Yes; we are up to Elizabeth the vintage quarry truck
11:12
Diesel 11
And new avatars.
11:12
Toz76
That episode should be canon.
11:12
Frankthetriviaman
*So can new chance be canon now that that was cleared up D-11?
11:12
Diesel 11
All of them should be canon.
11:12
Frankthetriviaman
Yes, it is canon, with one note
11:12
TGC Thomas
so, I just suggested that Thomas and the Jet Engine, Dunkin Duncan, and Rusty saves the day (or something like that I don't remember the exact title) should be non-canon
11:12
Diesel 11
@frank, sure.
11:13
Frankthetriviaman
thanks
11:13
Toz76
Rusty saves the day, I agree, but what's wrong with the other two?
11:13
Frankthetriviaman
TGC- what is your argument?
11:13
TGC Thomas
and that is because Thomas and The Jet Engine contradicts Thomas and Gordon
11:13
Toz76
How so?
11:13
TGC Thomas
because as it is said in the episode "Thomas would like to go as fast as Gordon, just once"
or something like that
11:14
Frankthetriviaman
And as established in episode one
Thomas went as fasta s Gordon and hated it
*fast as
11:14
Diesel 11
Meaning under his own power.
11:14
TGC Thomas
in Thomas and the Jet engine he wasn't in control, the jet engine was
11:15
Frankthetriviaman
Plus, how could the jet have worked since it wasn't connected to a fuel source?
11:15
Diesel 11
Anyways guys. I CHALLENGE YOU TO A DRAG RACE! DIE!! I'm feeling very cynical tonight.
11:15
TGC Thomas
ok
*drags race across floor*
11:16
Diesel 11
You should get Nitro Type accounts, then we can race against each other. I'd win.
11:16
Toz76
Nearly 80 years had passed between Thomas and Gordon and Thomas and the Jet Engine. Perhaps Thomas learned to like high speeds somehow.
I can't explain the fuel thing, maybe it was a mistake by the deliverers?
11:17
TGC Thomas
woah, where do you get 80 years
from
11:17
Frankthetriviaman
*assuming the jet engine episode took place in the 90s
And Thomas and Gordon in the 1920s
11:17
Toz76
So 70 some years.
11:17
TGC Thomas
when was the Jet Engine invented?
11:18
Frankthetriviaman
1940s
11:18
Diesel 11
The 1920s. Bigg City Port was the biggest harbour in the world. It was a time of change and great opportunity. Nobody knew it better than the hard-working tugs, whose strength and big hearts made them popular with everybody from tramp steamers to ocean liners. Important jobs in the port often kept them working night and day. My tugs, the Star Fleet were no exception. I had three harbour tugs: OJ, a paddle-steamer. Warrior and Big Mac. A railway tug, Top Hat. One little switcher, Ten Cents. And Hercules, my ocean-going tug. They were a good crew, striving to be the best in the port. Not always succeeding, but proud of their work. I remember the day we got our first big break. It started like most, at dawn.
11:18
Frankthetriviaman
The Me-262 was a late WWII German fighter jet
11:18
TGC Thomas
so it wasn't necisarrily 70 years, it could have been 50 or so
11:19
Diesel 11
Screw canon!
11:19
Toz76
Still, I don't see why we should condemn that episode when there are so many worse ones out there.
11:19
TGC Thomas
because there isn't a canon date for when Season 6 takes place
11:19
Frankthetriviaman
We could compromise
What if this story was being told in flashback
And Thomas was being cheeky and exaggerated what happened
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11:20
Toz76
I like it. Maybe he was terrified at the time, but acted brave to tease Gordon.
11:20
TGC Thomas
that sort of makes sense
11:21
Toz76
Let me look up Dunkin Duncan, I don't remember it.
Diesel 11 has joined the chat.
11:21
Diesel 11
Duncan on incline.
OH NO!
11:21
Frankthetriviaman
Ok, so, something happened, like maybe there was some fuel in the jet engine by accident
11:21
Diesel 11
*Plunge*
It's awesome.
One of me faves.
11:22
Frankthetriviaman
and *something* did happen, but the story we see is Thomas telling an exaggerated account
11:22
Toz76
What's wrong with Dunkin Duncan?
11:22
TGC Thomas
so, now for the other two I suggest should be non canon, Dunkin Duncan and Rusty saves the day contradict Season 4 as in those episodes Duncan still has something against Rusty
even though that was resolved back in season 4
11:22
Frankthetriviaman
Fair point.
11:22
Toz76
I think most episodes cam be classed as "exaggerations" for the sake of canon.
11:22
Diesel 11
Duncan was always was a bastard. I don't see what's wrong.
He was rude to the others, too.
11:23
Toz76
Yeah, Duncan was just being rude about Rusty's planned gender reassignment surgery.
11:23
Frankthetriviaman
A certain episodes we are saying were either stories, or bad dreams; if you see the canon interpretation thread on the forum,you'll see what we are doing
11:23
Diesel 11
He's not caught up in the times, I guess.
11:23
Toz76
Or exaggerations meant to mock other engines.
11:24
TGC Thomas
and that surgery for the massive face he already had
11:24
Diesel 11
Though Muck from BTB is the most confusing character. SHE'S A DAMN GIRL! GET IT STRAIGHT!!
Of course, I grew up in the US of A.
Not Britain.
BUT STILL.
It's confusing.
Confuzzling.
11:25
TGC Thomas
let's keep on topic here
11:25
Diesel 11
You get the picture.
Are we ever on topic?
THAT IS THE QUESTION.
11:25
Toz76
Can we talk about Edward Strikes Out? Because I actually have a justification for it.
11:25
Frankthetriviaman
So for the jet engine episode, I put down that it is canon, but what we saw was an exaggerated account, being told by thomas in flashback
11:26
Toz76
Agreed.
11:26
Diesel 11
YES! Tell us, Toz. I love that episode.
11:26
Frankthetriviaman
TGC and I consider Edward Strikes out non-canon, but I am curious, go ahead
11:26
Diesel 11
And sure, Frank.
11:26
Toz76
That's the Rocky introduction one, right? Just making sure I remembered the title right,
11:26
TGC Thomas
Yeah
11:26
Frankthetriviaman
yes
11:26
Diesel 11
I absolutely adore the New Series... anyways, go ahead..
11:27
Frankthetriviaman
Oh, next is The Fogman, when we get back to season 6
11:28
TGC Thomas
this is the problem with chatting through text
you can't see what they a saying as they type
11:28
Frankthetriviaman
It is problematic, but Im sure over time we get used to it
11:28
Diesel 11
That's why you should come to our live chats.
11:28
Toz76
So, Edward had some trauma in the past involving a crane, and ever since he's been irrationally opposed to all forms of cranes. Just watch Harvey and Cranky's introduction episodes.
11:29
Diesel 11
Huh, makes sense.
11:29
Toz76
He wasn't on his own branch line for the new crane's arrival.
Normally he'd be all over the new faces.
Come to think of it, I don't think he interacted with Jerome and Judy in TAB. MORE PROOF??
11:30
TGC Thomas
whixh
11:30
Toz76
Cranky
11:30
TGC Thomas
*which we rendered non-canon anyways but it fits
11:30
Toz76
We did? Why?
11:30
Frankthetriviaman
We established that when the RWS and TV series contradict
11:30
TGC Thomas
the Railway Series takes priority over the TVS, we established that
11:30
Frankthetriviaman
RWS takes priority
11:30
Diesel 11
You weren't hear, TGC and Frank started rendering everything with a tiny incident non-canon...
11:31
Frankthetriviaman
Well, not everything, but we did come up with good explanations to save certain episodes
Like why Bill and Ben weren't in the clay pits in season 6
11:32
Toz76
Still, there's no contradiction if we assume Jerome and Judy exist, because I can think of only one time Edward used the Breakdown Train in the Classic Series. He still can have an irrational fear of it.
11:32
Frankthetriviaman
I suppose that is possible, but there are still two major problems that I can identify with the episode
11:32
Toz76
I mean, he's all-loving, but it seems like whenever cranes are involved, he's either cruel or absent.
11:33
Frankthetriviaman
If Harvey has no problem lifting Percy, there is no reason for him to be wheezing over lifting a single pipe
11:33
Toz76
What are they?
11:33
Frankthetriviaman
And apparently, those flatbeds were made of legos
11:33
Toz76
How is that second one a problem?
11:34
Frankthetriviaman
TGC mentioned it earlier; the way the flatbeds broke
11:34
Toz76
Only direct contradictions/ooc moments should be grounds for non-canon status.
11:34
TGC Thomas
flatbeds should be more durable than the Lego X Wing
11:35
Toz76
We don't know how hard the crash was. Small things like that don't burn all Awdry holds dear.
11:35
Frankthetriviaman
As for the Adventure begins; it is canon when it comes to where it blends very with the RWS. Which is actually a good 95% of the special
11:35
Diesel 11
Honestly, this canon talk is driving me insane...
11:35
TGC Thomas
i guess that's true, but the Harvey Point still stands
11:35
Diesel 11
I'm gone.
11:35
Frankthetriviaman
Fair point
11:36
Toz76
Was Harvey overdo for an overhaul?
11:36
Frankthetriviaman
Sorry D-11; didn't mean to cause any problems
11:36
TGC Thomas
even if he was 1 pipe would be no problem
Diesel 11 has left the chat.
11:37
Toz76
I don't think it's a big enough inconsistency to discount the episode, especially considering it fits so well with the Edward and cranes thing.
11:37
Frankthetriviaman
Well, let me try and summarize everything.
11:37
Toz76
I agree it's odd, but when has he been able to lift engines other than that one time?
Maybe that episode is the error.
11:38
Frankthetriviaman
So we can make Edward Strikes out work if we assume the following:
Diesel 11 has joined the chat.
11:39
Frankthetriviaman
Edward has a deep fear/hatred of cranes due to a trauma he suffered long ago
11:39
Diesel 11
I feel like destroying somethings.
Like a glass house.
Watch it break.
11:39
Frankthetriviaman
Harvey had trouble with the pipes because he hadn't been properly maintained (lazy crew), and due for cleaning
11:39
Diesel 11
Or beer bottles.
11:40
Toz76
Yep.
D11, you okay?
11:40
Diesel 11
Nope.
11:40
Frankthetriviaman
And The flatbeds- what if there was a mix up at the yard, and Edward ended up accidentally taking some with "rotten wood, rusty frames"
*cough cough Scruffey
11:40
Toz76
Agreed.
11:41
Frankthetriviaman
TGC- that good for you?
11:41
Diesel 11
What does S. C. Ruffey have to do with this again?
11:41
TGC Thomas
"maybe if we put you back together you'll earn yourself a better-" yeah that works
it was just a reference Diesel 11
11:41
Diesel 11
He's a fave of mine.
TGCalt Oh.
11:41
Frankthetriviaman
He was pulled apart because of "rotten wood, rusty frames"
11:41
Toz76
And died in the RWS
11:42
Frankthetriviaman
"unserviceable from the start"
11:42
Diesel 11
Rebuilt in the TV Series... I'd love to see what he's up to now.
11:42
Frankthetriviaman
So we said RWS takes priority. However, anyone in favor of granting S.C. Ruffey exception?
11:43
TGC Thomas
I don't see a problem with giving him an exception
11:44
Frankthetriviaman
Toz, D-11?
11:44
Toz76
Sure, why not.
11:45
Frankthetriviaman
The motion is passed, S.C. Ruffey is granted exception in 3WSR
So, to get back on track, with season 6
Next episode is The Fogman
11:47
Toz76
Canon
11:47
TGC Thomas
I've seen it recently, I say canon
11:47
Frankthetriviaman
TGC, you want to watch it, or do you want to just discuss it
Beat me to it; ok, it's canon
11:47
Diesel 11
Yes, he's an exception to us all.
11:48
TGC Thomas
a bit late there Diesel 11
11:48
Frankthetriviaman
Next is Jack jumps in and a Friend in Need
11:48
Toz76
๐
11:48
Frankthetriviaman
*Counting both together since they can be considered a two parter
11:48
Toz76
Canon
11:48
TGC Thomas
ive seen them many times over, canon
speaking of which, should The Pack mini series be canon?
11:49
Frankthetriviaman
Well, I say canon, but only if we assume that their crews share similar personalities to which vehicles they drive. That would explain why that dump truck drove so dangerously in the first part
11:50
Toz76
Yes, but Cronk Station as it appears there should be assumed to be a different one from the real Cronk Station, Cronk being a major main line town
11:50
Frankthetriviaman
To explain why they do things that aren't normally considered "safe" at a construction site
Perhaps that was an older Cronk station, built on the ouskirts of town?
11:51
Diesel 11
Canon.
11:52
TGC Thomas
actually I have a question, will we lightly skim through seasons 9-12 and skip 13-16 altogether or just skip 9-16?
11:52
Frankthetriviaman
yea; there's no saving 13-16
11:53
Diesel 11
But I adore Seasons 8-11. And Season 12 isn't half-bad.
11:53
Frankthetriviaman
8-12... I'm willing to give a chance. How about you TGC?
11:53
Diesel 11
Oh wow, my pastor is still online.
11:53
Toz76
Satan speaks at midnight...
11:54
TGC Thomas
im the one who asked the question in the first place, but I say we just skip 13-16 and give 9-12 a chance
11:54
Toz76
Agreed on S8-12
11:54
Frankthetriviaman
Toz- you ok with that explanation; the Cronk we saw in those episodes was an older station on the outskirts of town
?
11:54
Toz76
S13-15 can die in a hole of exaggeration and dreams.
I'm okay with it.
11:54
Frankthetriviaman
One second
11:55
Toz76
They say S 16 isn't too bad, though, but IDK.
11:55
TGC Thomas
and 16 Toz, Andrew Brenner only helped for BMM and not season 16
11:55
Diesel 11
16 is bad.
11:55
Toz76
I say all new character introductions should stay canon for continuity's sake, even if it sucks.
11:55
Diesel 11
But 15 was fucking awful.
11:56
Frankthetriviaman
How about a compromise
11:56
Diesel 11
Though there were a couple exceptions.
11:56
Frankthetriviaman
Sorry, fell a couple points behind, nevermind
So, the next episode is It's only snow
11:57
TGC Thomas
the introduction of the holiday known as Windter
*Winter Holiday
11:58
Diesel 11
Can we take a break from the canon discussion and play a game or something? My heads about to crash.
11:58
TGC Thomas
i have to go off in a few minutes actually
11:58
Frankthetriviaman
So not canon then? I think we can all agree that "winter holiday" was one of the worst things to come out of the dark era
11:59
Diesel 11
Exactly. Fuck you, it's Christmas!
Though actually, it came about during Season 6.
11:59
Frankthetriviaman
*We are on season 6
11:59
Diesel 11
"It's Only Snow"..
11:59
TGC Thomas
if we just make a small change and replace "Winter Holiday" with Christmas it's fine.
12:00
Frankthetriviaman
I suppose; does the episode still hold up when we replace "Winter holiday" with "christmas?"
12:00
Diesel 11
There I was completely wasted, out of work and down All inside it's so frustrating as I drift from town to town Feel as though nobody cares if I live or die So I might as well begin to put some action in my life Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law So much for the golden future I can't even start I've had every promise broken, there's anger in my heart You don't know what it's like, you don't have a clue If you did you'd find yourselves doing the same thing too Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law You don't know what it's like Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law Breaking the law, breaking the law
12:01
TGC Thomas
breaking the law by flooding the chat
12:01
Diesel 11
12:01
TGC Thomas
anwyas I have to go for tonight
12:01
Diesel 11
Alright, see you TGC!
Toz76 has left the chat.
12:02
Frankthetriviaman
good night TGC;
So we'll pick up with this next time you want to continue it?
*It's only snow
TGC Thomas has left the chat.
12:04
Diesel 11
Let's play a game!
12:04
Frankthetriviaman
what can we play?
12:04
Diesel 11
Obscure Reference, Song Battle, etc.
Only a lot faster.
Toz76 has joined the chat.
12:06
Frankthetriviaman
hi Toz
12:06
Diesel 11
Toz, what game do you want to play?
12:07
Frankthetriviaman
You didn't miss much; we decided to pick up with It's only snow next time TGC will talk about canon\
But anyway, it's game time now
12:07
Diesel 11
So, what shall it be?
12:07
Toz76
I don't have an issue with Winter Holiday. It's not an actual thing, they just said "the winter holidays". So Hanukkah, Christmas, etc
IDK on the game.